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Nothing is more horrifying to an adventurer than a Rust Monster, its mere touch turning their weapons to rust - Lore & History

This week we bring forward a horrifying bug! This strange monster is known as the Rust Monster, and as you may have gathered from its name, it has something to do with rust.
For all the monsters that have come and gone, it’s a little surprising that this strange looking creature has traveled through time. It certainly hasn't existed this long because of its good looks, but from the unique ability to destroy metal. Finally, we have a monster that doesn’t want to eat your face off but rather is interested in what you wear. This roach-like creature doesn’t bother trying to hurt you, instead, it focuses on corroding your weapon while it’s still in your hand.
Like the Owlbear, the Rust Monster is one of the original monsters created by Gary Gygax. Inspired by a toy he picked up for his game since most miniatures were for armies and not horrifying monsters, he created a creature that could not physically hurt you, but the mental damage it inflicted was far worse. In an interview with Dragon magazine, Gygax tells of how he came up with the Rust Monster.
When I picked up a bag of plastic monsters made in Hong Kong at the local dime store to add to the sand table array … there was the figurine that looked rather like a lobster with a propeller on its tail … nothing very fearsome came to mind… Then inspiration struck me. It was a Rust Monster.
Dragon Magazine #88 (1984)

OD&D

No. Appearing: 1-2
Armor Class: 2
Move: 12”
Hit Dice: 5
% in Lair: Nil
No. of Attacks: 1
Damage/Attack: Special
Treasure: Nil
The Rust Monster was introduced in the Greyhawk Supplement (1974) and might be one of the more interesting monsters to be introduced in this edition. Not only is it more than just a typical monster that goes around murdering in a dungeon, but it also has a special way of dealing with adventurers that helps it stand out. We can only imagine the look of confusion at Gary Gygax’s table as he puts down his little toy Rust Monster and told everyone to roll their initiative… promptly followed by his uncontrollable giggling. They had no idea what was heading for them.
Unfortunately for the rest of the Dungeons & Dragons community that bought the supplement there is no picture to giggle at and there is no information describing exactly what the Rust Monster even looks like. The closest we get to a description is that it looks like an “inoffensive creature” and that it is very fast, which is not exactly inspiring horrifying images of a bug-thing trying to eat your metal bits.
An encounter with the Rust Monster probably looked very different from table to table back then, but the mechanics of this monster would be similar. A group of adventurers is wandering around a dungeon when they stumble across 1 to 2 inoffensive but fast creatures. They decide this is a good time to put that fancy new magical sword to the test and the fighter goes to stab at this inoffensive looking creature. The blade then disappears into rust as it hits the monster, then it’s the Rust Monsters turn who inoffensively attacks the fighter turning all of their plate armor into rust immediately. We now have a naked fighter sprinting back to the party screaming about how the Rust Monster is invincible and that the magic-user needs to destroy it with a fireball.
Before we talk about what makes the Rust Monster so special, let’s look at their more generic statistics and how they stack up. Their AC is surprisingly high, as an AC 2 is equivalent to that of an umber hulk and even to some dragons. Their described “fast-ness” gives them a movement rate that allows them to keep up with most characters, if not chase them down. For such an inoffensive looking creature they also have a decent amount of Hit Dice, so that’s just one more surprise the party is in store for them when the fireball clears and these creatures are charging you, smelling that delicious sweet iron.
What truly makes the Rust Monster special though is their only attack that simply relies on them touching you. Their touch simply turns your armor into rust, this could be a metal shield, a holy amulet, or even a powerful magical artifact. It doesn’t matter what it is so long as it has that delicious ferrous material in it, meaning anything with iron content. Of course, that’s not the only problem when dealing with these annoying monsters. If you try to beat them away with your sword, your weapon turns to rust upon touching them, it doesn’t matter if it is magical or not.
All you are doing by using your iron weapons against a Rust Monster is simply feeding them. These creatures feed on the rust that was once a family heirloom passed down countless generations… Also, they can smell any iron-based metals and are attracted to it, so you might know to avoid them all the while they are specifically running after you, hungry for that delicious armor your fighter is wearing.

Basic D&D

Armor Class: 2
Hit Dice: 5*
Move: 120’ (40’)
Attacks: 1
Damage: See below
No. Appearing: 1-4 (1-4)
Save As: Fighter 3
Morale: 7
Treasure Type: Nil
Alignment: Neutral
XP Value: 300
The Rust Monster appears in the Dungeons & Dragons Basic Set (1977) with nothing new, luckily for the Rust Monster, it gets a few updates in the updated Moldvay/Cook Basic Set (1981) and the BECMI Basic Set (1983). The original Basic Set from 1977 still has no information describing what this ‘inoffensive’ creature looks like and the limited information provided in OD&D is cut down even further. It’s not until the next Basic Set in 1981 that those who play Basic are able to gaze with horror at this monster and get a more detailed explanation of what exactly it is.
The Rust Monster is described as a giant armadillo with a long tail, it has two feelers in the front that are more aptly described as long antennae. This description makes us question the ‘inoffensive’ tag that they had been described with previously, those who hail from Texas and similar southwestern states can attest that armadillos aren’t the prettiest of creatures. Combine that with an extra long tail and two long feelers on its face, that the artwork depicts as fuzzy, it makes us worried it is going to feast on our face. Despite the overall sense of danger we get from this creature, at least there is no new lore that it likes to eat people, so that’s a plus.
With little no new information provided in the BECMI Basic Set, let’s go over a change that is featured in the 1981 and 1983 sets with regards to the Rust Monster's only attack. Hitting or being hit by the Rust Monster causes normal metal armor or weapons to immediately rust on contact and, as the description so helpfully points out, they become completely unusable. Thanks for letting us know a pile of rust doesn’t function anymore!
Now, that’s all as before, but this time we get clarification on magical items that might make you feel a teensy bit safer in fighting them. If you strike out at the Rust Monster, which actually makes you the monster, they just want a snack, your +2 magical sword will be reduced by 1 step to a +1 magical sword. It’s not so mean to the fighters, and in fact, your magical sword and magical armor get a chance to save against this type of effect! When you hit or get hit by them, the item targeted by the Rust Monster’s effect gets a 10% chance for every magical bonus to its stats to save against being turned into rust. This means that a +2 shield would have a 20% chance of not being reduced to a +1 shield when struck, while a +1 weapon would have a 10% chance of not becoming a mundane sword.
In the 1983 Basic Set, there is a solo adventure to help teach new players how to play Dungeons & Dragons and features you assuming the role of a fighter and going around and clearing the nearby caves of baddies. The adventure is set up like a choose your own adventure and has you fighting goblins, ghouls, and the Rust Monster.
During the fight with this horrendous monster, it strips you of all your armor and weapons and then, as you stand their defenseless bracing yourself for the final blow… it loses interest in you and starts eating all the rust your equipment made for it. According to this adventure, Rust Monsters are not evil or mean, just hungry for rust, and have no intention of killing you. This is a great little tidbit hiding behind an adventure about the monster and how it operates inside of the world, it’s a little sad that this type of information wasn’t made available in the description of the monster. We might’ve saved even more of these strange monsters from being killed by murder-hobo players!

AD&D

Frequency: Uncommon
No. Appearing: 1-2
Armor Class: 2
Move: 18”
Hit Dice: 5
% in Lair: 10%
Treasure Type: Q (x10)
No. of Attacks: 2
Damage/Attack: Nil
Special Attacks: See below
Special Defenses: Nil
Magic Resistance: Standard
Intelligence: Animal
Alignment: Neutral
Size: M
Psionic Ability: Nil
Unfortunately for the Rust Monster, it doesn’t change much in this edition, though it at least makes it into the Monster Manual (1977). Rust Monsters will only be found in dark, damp locations like dungeons, underground caverns, or potentially in a sewer. They spend their time wandering around, looking for food that, as mentioned previously, is made up of metal. For them, their ideal food is ferrous metals and they typically disregard metals like gold or silver, unlike the humanoids that wander the world murdering for it. The Rust Monster will hunt out these metal types, such as steel, iron, mithral, adamantine, and the like, being able to smell it from a fair distance away. Now we are sure they do other things other than just looking for food, like make more Rust Monsters, but we have no additional details. For all we know, they could be the life of the party at dungeon gatherings.
1st edition also uses the same rules as Basic does when it comes to how they deal with weapons and armor. Anything they touch with an antenna rusts away so long as it is a metal and anything you touch them with rusts away if it is a metal. If you are carrying out some magical items, you get that all-important saving throw to not lose it forever as it gets a cumulative 10% per magical bonus to the item. There is a big difference however, if the item fails the save, it immediately turns to rust. None of that wimpy being reduced by one so that your +2 sword would become a +1 sword. Fail that save and say goodbye to the magical flail your deity bestowed upon you. Good luck trying to explain that one.
The last bit of information you can squeeze out of the description is that Rust Monsters are easily distracted. When you decide to run away, and if your party is made up of only fighters clad in plate, and you should run away, you can distract the Rust Monster from chasing you down. You’ll finally have a use for those caltrops you’ve been carrying around forever as you throw them on the ground and the Rust Monster will pause to have a snack. It’s a quick eater though, as it will only stop for a single round to munch on them. So get behind a door and wedge it shut. Now only if you had some caltrops…
We find out much more information about the Rust Monster in Ed Greenwood’s Ecology of the Rust Monster (Dragon Magazine #88, 1984). We know exactly what the first thing you want to know about these Rust Monsters is, and don’t worry, we’ll let you know right after we talk about the important lore we learn about the Rust Monster. If you just can’t wait, skip this next paragraph.
Rust Monsters are highly dependent on their sense of smell, which makes sense as we know they can smell metals from a distance, but what you didn’t know is that if the Rust Monster can’t smell the object, they won’t know it is there. If some beautiful and tasty ferrous metal is hanging out in plain view, and for some reason they can’t smell it, it’ll completely ignore it and keep on walking past it. This ability to sniff out metals, and even to turn metals into rust, is thanks to a unique strain of bacteria that exists within the Rust Monster. It turns out, the Rust Monster is a host to this bacteria that produces sugar out of metals, more specifically ferrous metals, and then provides that nutrition to the Rust Monster. This, coupled with the energy of sunlight, which is weird as they hang out in dark, damp locations, keep the bacteria and the Rust Monster alive, rusting, and in good health. No one knows exactly what this bacteria is and it can’t live outside of the Rust Monster, but there are many interested in trying to grow their own and see what else they can do with such marvelous bacteria.
Now, for the information, you were dying to learn. If you skipped the paragraph above just so you could find this information out… well, we don’t know what that means about you. Rust Monsters reproduce by finding another one of their kind, the male Rust Monster will then begin making chittering noises. Because they aren’t very picky about who they propagate their species with, and that they mate very often, the female is more than likely down, and then 4 to 7 months later a baby Rust Monster will be born completely whole and ready to start devouring metals. It will stay with its mother for a few months before running off on its own and after a year of being alive, it’ll start chittering around to make more rust babies.

2e

Climate/Terrain: Subterranean
Frequency: Uncommon
Organization: Solitary
Activity Cycle: Night
Diet: Metalalove
Intelligence: Animal (1)
Treasure: Q
Alignment: Nil [MC] / Neutral [MM]
No. Appearing: 1 -2
Armor Class: 2
Movement: 18
Hit Dice: 5
THAC0: 15
No. of Attacks: 2
Damage/Attack: Nil
Special Attacks: See below
Special Defenses: Nil
Magic Resistance: Nil
Size: M (5’ long)
Morale: Average (9)
XP Value: 270
The Rust Monster is forced to wait until the Monstrous Compendium Volume Two (1989) to get some love from 2nd edition and is later reprinted in the Monstrous Manual (1993). This edition goes to greater lengths to depict it more like an insect than in the previous versions, and outside of the metallic-like shell that covers it back, looks nothing like an armadillo. A yellowish-brown color, it now smells like wet, oxidizing metal. Yum. It has two freakishly long antennae extending out from its face, its legs look like they belong on a cricket, and its tail has a hammer or paddle-like extension in the back. It’s a very strange creature, but the text assures us it is still very inoffensive and just wants to eat.
This edition goes to great lengths to paint this monster as not an evil creature, but a misunderstood one that just can’t help its nature. Due to its ever-present hunger, it has little interest in anything that doesn’t have metal. In fact, it is quite excited when it smells metal, especially if it is forged and worked metal like your fighter’s plate armor. They prefer eating refined metal armor than just chunky raw ore, but that doesn’t make them an evil creature. Wouldn’t you rather have a meal from a fine dining restaurant than have to eat prison food?
Of course, you would, and your shiny +1 sword is a gourmet meal to the Rust Monster. If you don’t happen to carry any metal, looking at you wizards, it won’t bother you but will sniff at you curiously. If you have nothing of interest, read: metal food, it will leave you alone and continue looking for scrumptious morsels to feast on. Now if you’re a dwarf, these creatures are like roaches to you, a pest that you want to eradicate. Dwarves aren’t known to be the sharing type, and since our Rust Monster eats the precious metals they use in their forges, they must be eliminated with extreme prejudice.
Little changes for the Rust Monster, attacks against them with metal weapons will turn those same weapons into rust. Attacks by the Rust Monster don’t hurt you but do leave you naked as your armor turns to rust. All magical metal items get a chance of not turning to rust on contact, the same as the previous edition. The largest change is that now, there is a 30% chance per round that a Rust Monster will simply stop mid-combat to snack on any rust that has formed as you tried to keep it away. It doesn’t matter how much of your stuff it has turned to rust, or how much more stuff you have that would be tasty, it will always take one round to consume all the rust around it.
For the sake of argument, let’s say you kill a Rust Monster because there is no driving these creatures away. They are apparently too stupid to have a sense of self-preservation and only have the thought to consume more and more rust. If you kill one of these innocent and pure creatures, what type of treasure can you expect? Well, there is a very high likelihood you’ll find rust… from your own equipment. But also gems! Rust Monsters don’t collect treasures and don’t have a use for gems that are embedded into sword hilts or helmets, leaving them scattered around on the floor. Maybe their young like to play with gems like they are balls when they aren’t gorging themselves on rust.
Speaking of their young there is a small chance that you could find a happy little family, with the parents having a single offspring with them. Being an only child has its challenges, but at least it won’t have to share its meals. The kiddo may only be at the half-strength of a normal Rust Monster, but it eats as if it is fully grown. Creatures that eat organic materials and leave behind the metals, such as carrion crawlers and gelatinous cubes, are their best friends, following behind and eating the discarded metals.
The last new tidbit of information you can glean about the Rust Monsters takes us off the Prime Material Plane and out into the Outer Planes. On the first layer of the plane of Acheron, Avalas, you might stumble across a strange sight. That of an insectoid-dragon with its tendrils turning the metal cubes of Acheron to rust for it too greedily devour. These Rust Dragons are supposedly the imago, or adult, form of the Rust Monster, while the Rust Monsters we all know and love, well maybe not love, the larva forms of the Rust Dragons.
Rust Monsters will somehow journey, once they get incredibly old, to the Outer Plane of Acheron where they will gorge themselves for a whole year on the metal cubes located on Avalas. After a year passes, they will then spin themselves a metallic web and will go into the pupa stage inside of their chrysalis where they will undergo a metamorphosis for three years. Upon emerging out of their metal spun shell, they will take on the form of a Rust Dragon and begin a long life of happily gorging themselves on the metal cubes of Acheron.

3e/3.5e

Medium Aberration
Hit Dice: 5d8+5 (27 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Armor Class: 18 (+3 Dex, +5 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple +3/+3
Attacks: Antennae touch +3 melee (rust)
Full Attack: Antennae touch +3 melee (rust) and bite -2 melee (1d3)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5ft.
Special Attacks: Rust
Special Qualities: Darkvision, scent
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +4, Will +5
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 8
Skills: Listen +7, Spot +7
Feats: Alertness, Track
Climate/Terrain: Underground
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 6-8 HD (Medium); 9-15 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: -
The Rust Monster moves on up in this edition and gets introduced in the Monster Manual (2000/2003). To some, it now looks more like an insect than in the previous versions, while others may think it now looks like an ugly mess of skin pudding. Looking at the artwork, Rust Monsters now have the coloring of reddish hues into a yellowish-brown color. It very much looks like it is rust, whether or not it is because of years of eating rust has stained its body.
3rd edition also introduces something new for the Rust Monster, it can now hurt you by biting on to you for a paltry 1d3 points of damage. Of course, its primary attack, corroding all your metal items, is now listed as a “Rust” attack. So much for originality, but it gets the point across. Also, we finally have a measurement of how much metal can be rusted in one attack, and that is a 10-foot cube of metal. That is over a ton of metal to destroy in one blow.
Magic items no longer get a percentage chance of being affected, rather you must make a Reflex saving throw or watch as your beautiful set of ancient plate armor from a lost civilization rusts away into a pile of delicious food. We suppose if we just watched what could only be called a priceless artifact get turned into chowder, we’d be a bit upset too.
Now, we aren’t opposed to change, in fact we enjoy seeing how monsters augment and morph throughout the many editions, even if we complain about it. We only mention this because of the great injustice that 3e piles onto the Rust Monster who just wants to eat all your delicious goodies. In the Draconomicon: The Book of Dragons (2003), there is an entry for the Rust Dragon and they are mentioned. You might think that that is appropriate, since the Rust Dragon is just a grown up Rust Monster, but no. This entry goes on to say that the idea that the Rust Dragon is from the Rust Monster is simply the “ravings of deranged lunatics.”
This injustice stands for three long years until Dragon #346 (August 2006) and the article Ecology of the Rust Monster is released and in it, they finally admit that there is probably some connection. The entire article takes a new look at the Rust Monster and is a great read that provides an interesting spin on how the Rust Monster rusts away metal. Instead of using bacteria to destroy metal, a Rust Monster uses its paddle tail to breath in lots of carbon dioxide where it’s body then turns that into pure oxygen. Across its feather-like tentacles and all over its body are tiny little nodules that the Rust Monster can use to eject pure oxygen, along with some pseudo-magic, to immediately oxidize and destroy metals, which explains how the Rust Monster can destroy gold, silver, and other non-ferrous metals.
Apart from their new explanation about the Rust Monster’s abilities, we also get information about how the Rust Monster has several different origin stories, with the widely spread one being that they were created by a god who was scared of technology. They created the Rust Monster as a response to the threat of greater technologies, and all that remains of their realm is a rusty wasteland as these cute little monsters destroyed absolutely everything. There’s a lesson to be learned in there somewhere, but we can’t stop to think about that as the article mentions two other important pieces of information.
The first being that there are different versions of the Rust Monster that reside in different environments, from the shaggy, blue Frostfell Rust Monster that destroys metal by super blasting it with cold and freezing it so it shatters, to the khaki-hued Waste Rust Monsters that turns metal into sand. These different variations of the Rust Monsters can be found all over, each giving the Rust Monsters different ways of destroying your favorite sword.
The second piece of information worth talking about is their relationship to dragons and Rust Dragons in particular. Now you might be groaning for our strange obsession with dragons, but hear us out. There is a small section that briefly mentions that the Rust Monsters might be attracted to the metallic dragons due to their affinity to specific metals. This has led to Rust Monsters, maybe, messing around with some of the metallic dragon eggs, either by tainting the egg itself and transforming it into a Rust Dragon or that the Rust Monster eats the contents of the egg itself, mistaking its metallic egg for metal to be feasted on, transforming them into a Rust Dragon. This is a fascinating look at how magical creatures could interact with each other, though we vastly prefer 2e’s version of events where they spun themselves a comfy metal cocoon and emerged as a pretty insect-dragon with cute little insect wings.

4e

Level 6 Skirmisher
Medium Natural Beast / XP 250
Initiative +10 / Senses Perception +5; low-light vision
HP 66; Bloodied 33
AC 20; Fortitude 16, Reflex 21, ** Will** 17
Speed 8
Bite (standard; at will) +11 vs. AC; 1d10+5 damage, and if the target is wearing heavy armor, the armor is rusting until the end of the encounter. While the armor is rusting, the target takes a cumulative -1 penalty to AC, to a maximum penalty of -5.
Dissolve Metal (standard; encounter) Reliable. Targets a creature wearing or wielding a rusting magic item of 10th level or lower or any non-magic rusting item; +9 vs. Reflex; the rusting item is destroyed.
Rusting Defense (when the rust monster is hit by a weapon attack; at will) The weapon used in the triggering attack is rusting until the end of the encounter. While the weapon is rusting, the target takes a cumulative -1 penalty to damage rolls on attacks that use the weapon, to a maximum penalty of -5.
Residuum Recovery A rust monster consumes any items it destroys. The residuum from any magic items the monster has destroyed can be retrieved from its stomach. The residuum is worth the market value of the item (not one-fifth the value).
Alignment Unaligned / Languages -
Str 8 (+2) Dex 20 (+8) Wis 15 (+5) Con 10 (+3) Int 2 (-1) Cha 12 (+4)
Unfortunately for the fan-favorite Rust Monster, it is forced to wait 2 long years before it arrives in 4e with the release of the Monster Manual 2 (2009). Ok, so the Rust Monster may not be a fan favorite, but it’s probably a favorite of DM’s everywhere, that’s for sure. We usually complain that the 4th edition provides little to no information about the monster we look at, but it’s the exact opposite for our favorite monster, Rusty. We are introduced to not only the Rust Monster but a Young Rust Monster Swarm and the magic loving Dweomer’s Eater. We still won’t forgive them for putting the Rust Monster in the second book of monsters, but it’s a start.
The Rust Monster’s abilities get new fancy names in 4th edition, but they remain the same in what they do. The Rust Monster still isn’t the smartest creature you’ll run into, but it remains one of the hungriest. When encountered, it will immediately head towards the party member wearing and or wielding the most metal, that it can see. See!? Now, Rust Monsters can see your metal, which means no layering dung on you in a desperate attempt to not be smelled.
Now, when it sees all that beautiful metal, which is typically worn by you, Mister Fighter, and it begins to charge you down, how should you respond? If you’ve never run into one of these creatures before, you’ll probably do what you do best… swing your big old sword at it until it dies or you die. By now we all know what happens. Hit Rusty or get hit by Rusty and your fancy metal starts to rust.
The difference now is that the game has become a kinder, gentler game, which is a little sad. Your magical stuff no longer immediately rusts into a small snack for the Rust Monster to feast upon. It will continue to rust over the length of the encounter and it is possible that it too will become a pile of rust, but losing it immediately on a failed save is no more. While its horrifying to watch your Mace of Disruption slowly disintegrate before your eyes throughout an encounter, it’s better than watching it dissolve in your hands in 6 seconds.
In fact, their Dissolve Metal attack only works on equipment that can rust as the statblock specifies “…wearing or wielding a rusting magic item… non-magic rusting item…”. This means if you make a sword completely out of silver for those werewolves, it’ll be fine, at least how we are reading it. Except there’s a small hang up to that, as their defensive ability Rusting Defense has no text about the weapon being able to rust, it simply states that any weapons hitting it take a penalty the more the Rust Monster are struck as the weapon ‘rusts’. At the end of the encounter, your weapon stops rusting.
Of course, what happens if you had used a Mace of Disruption and it died during this knockdown fight with the Rust Monster? That brings us to the biggest change for the Rust Monster, more specifically its Residuum Recovery ability. Unlike many creature abilities, this one doesn’t provide any benefit for the creature, but it provides the player with a massive benefit. When Rusty eats the pile of rust that was once your amazing mace of death, not surprisingly it ends up in its stomach. Now, after eating its fill of metal, the Rust Monster will scurry off, retreating to digest its meal, and we bet most likely he’ll take a nap. Now, we aren’t suggesting that you track down and kill this poor little guy with extreme prejudice, but if you do, you have a chance of saving your precious items.
By slicing the Rust Monster open, you can cut open its stomach, and scoop out the ‘residuum’ that was once your all-powerful weapon and you have a chance to ‘rebuild’ it. 4th edition provides a very handy way of doing so with the Create Magic Item feat which will allow you to recreate the lost item from the residuum. The text of the Rust Monster strongly suggests that the DM allows the player to be able to recover their lost items. It goes on to say that you can make the player suffer for a bit by making them use a plain old weapon before they find the time or person to recreate the item. A newer DM probably thinks this is a great idea, but grognards might start screaming bullshit upon reading this. This, while annoying, is not quite the same awfulness of past editions and just makes the Rust Monster an annoyance and not that dangerous.
We are also introduced to the Young Rust Monster Swarm and Dweomer Eater. The swarm is an interesting creature, when you think of a swarm, you think about a large number of creatures attacking as one. Since Rust Monsters only have 1 to 2 young, the question is how do you find that many children? Do they all go to the same high school and once they hit those teenage years become an unruly pack of angry and disillusioned Rust Monsters? No matter how it happens, it isn’t fun for the poor group that runs into the swarm. Look no further than its primary attack, Swarm of Teeth to understand just how deadly the swarm is. The name alone sounds horrible, and if you happen to be wearing heavy armor, your day truly is ruined. We should point out, no equipment can be destroyed by the swarm, you simply take a penalty until the end of the encounter.
Next up is the Dweomer Eater, which is every sentient magic item's worst nightmare. Not only do they love the taste of metal, but their favorite side dish is arcane energy. Its Magic Consumption defensive ability sucks the magic out of a weapon when you strike at it, of course you can sit back and relax because it comes back by the end of the encounter. If the Dweomer Eater can turn your item to rust and devour it, repeat the previous steps of murdering it in cold blood, dissecting it, and then scooping out your residuum. At this point, it's worth pointing out that when you sold stuff in 4e, you’d get about one-fifth the value of the item, not so with this residuum as you can sell this magical rust for its full market value. You can go up to a merchant with rust in hand, give a small shrug and they’ll pay you for the total amount of that Mace of Disruption you lost. You can then turn around and spend that exact amount the merchant gave you and buy a brand new Mace of Disruption free of all rust, it’s like you never lost your mace at all… which… is… let’s move on to a different topic!
Dragons! Oh wait, there are two Draconomicons (2008/2009) in 4e and neither one has information on the Rust Dragon? Sigh. We regret to inform you that the Rust Dragon has been removed, and every baby Rust Monster’s dreams of metamorphosing into a fearsome dragon is just rust in the wind.
The last thing we should mention about the Rust Monster doesn’t actually have to do with the Rust Monster directly. There is a section at the end of the Rust Monster’s stat blocks called “A Guide to Using Rust Monsters” that has some good pointers in there but also creates a very ‘safe’ atmosphere. The good pointers are that if you include a Rust Monster, come up with ways for the adventurers to carry on their adventuring day, otherwise, the players will feel like they must end the action and return to town to buy new weapons. This could be by providing less optimal equipment early on in the dungeon that the PCs could use or letting them fashion makeshift weapons out of what they can find. It makes sense and is important for DMs to think about.
One of the problems it creates, while not necessarily a problem of the game itself, is that this turns the Rust Monster into a very ‘safe’ encounter. There is no risk of losing your equipment, really its more of an annoyance than anything else, and the players, if they want their stuff back must simply go to town, sell some rust and get all their equipment back. All it takes is time not playing the game for them to do this. While we understand this was done because of the importance of the magic item treadmill in 4e, which was also present in the previous editions, the Rust Monster stops being the threat it once was and just becomes annoying.

5e

Medium monstrosity, unaligned
Armor Class 14 (natural armor)
Hit Points 27 (5d8+5)
Speed 40 ft.
STR 13 (+1) | DEX 12 (+1) | CON 13 (+1 ) | INT 2 (-4) | WIS 13 (+1) | CHA 6 (-2)
Senses darkvision 60 ft., passive Perception 11
Languages -
Challenge 1/2 (100 XP)
Iron Scent. The Rust Monster can pinpoint, by scent, the location of ferrous metal within 30 feet of it.
Rust Metal. Any non magical weapon made of metal that hits the rust monster corrodes. After dealing damage, the weapon take a permanent and cumulative -1 penalty to damage rolls. If its penalty drops to -5, the weapon is destroyed. Non magical ammunition made of metal that hits the rust monster is destroyed after dealing damage.
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +3 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 5 (1d8 + 1) piercing damage.
Antennae. The rust monster corrodes a non magical ferrous metal object it can see within 5 feet of it. If the object isn’t being worn or carried, the touch destroys a 1 foot cube of it. If the object is being worn or carried by a creature, the creature can make a DC 11 Dexterity saving throw to avoid the rust monster’s touch. If the object touched is either mental armor or a metal shield being worn or carried, it takes a permanent and cumulative -1 penalty to the AC it offers. Armor reduced to an AC of 10 or a shield that drops to a +0 bonus is destroyed. If the object touched is a held metal weapon, it rusts as described in the Rust Metal trait.
The Rust Monster is introduced for 5th edition in the Monster Manual (2014) and it is nerfed quite a bit. 5th edition strips away everything that makes them a creature worth fearing, causing grown goliaths to weep like children when their favorite toy is taken away. It now has a mediocre Armor Class, hit points that a 2nd level character could wipe out in a few turns, and the same CR as a giant goat. All this plus the fact that the picture of the Rust Monster is worse than the previous editions, we have to wonder… where was the love for the Rust Monster?
The most damaging blow to the Rust Monster’s greatness involves its Rust Metal ability. No longer does this ability have any effect on magic items. That’s like taking away a dragon’s breath weapon attack or saying that griffons have wings but can’t fly. While you could easily strip the Rust Monster of its ability to destroy magic items and claim it is for game balance as magic items are so rare in 5e, that doesn’t explain the rest of the stat block, nor the Zorbo in Tomb of Annihilation (2017) who can destroy magic items.
If you attack with your non-magical weapon, you get five hits in with it before it is destroyed completely, which probably isn’t going to happen as four average attacks with a shortsword (d6) with just a +3 modifier will end up with you dealing 25 points of damage to the Rust Monster, and because you are an adventuring party of 4, you don’t even have to hit that many times. This just means that your weapon will, instead of being destroyed, just have a permanent penalty to it until you toss it away and buy a new one, or steal the dead goblin’s shortsword. We’d say that this is more of an annoyance than anything else.
Of course, weapons aren’t the only things that a Rust Monster is interested in as armor can be made of metal too. When metal is struck by the Rust Monster, you get a chance to avoid the equipment getting touched by the Rust Monster that is pretty easy to make. If you have no modifier to your Dexterity, there is a 50% chance you won’t get touched by the Rust Monster, and then the Rust Monster’s turn is over and then you wail on it and it dies. If you are unlucky and your armor gets touched, it takes a minus to the AC bonus it provides and is only destroyed if it is reduced to a bonus of 0. Shields would take two turns to destroy completely while most armor would take anywhere from 3 to 8 turns to destroy, though again… it’ll pry take a lot longer as it is such a low DC to succeed.
Looking at the lore for the Rust Monster, we are disappointed that there is no mention of its rightful place as the larva stage of a Rust Dragon, but at this point we weren’t holding our breath. The lore stays pretty much the same, though it does specify the Rust Monster is only interested in ferrous metals, which includes mithral or adamantine, but they no longer can eat silver, gold, and other metals.
The Rust Monster has the Iron Scent ability which allows it to smell metal, which is better than in 4th edition at least, but its range is reduced from 90 feet to a mere 30 feet. Rust Monsters are still inoffensive, even if they aren't described as such anymore, and aren’t likely to attack you unless it smells some delicious ferrous metal on you. If you treat a Rust Monster with love and respect, it could become a pet or a companion. That does mean that if your druid won’t let you kill Rusty for slightly damaging a random weapon you found lying around on the ground, the druid will have to keep a constant eye on it and ensure it doesn’t eat the plate-clad paladin while they are napping.
The Rust Monster was created from a random toy and its legacy had a lasting impact on every character that would run into it. Adventurers would flee in fear from it and, while it was incredibly weak, created an interesting challenge that a party had to face with very real consequences for not planning properly. Throughout the editions, the Rust Monster was slowly pulled back until the main ability that makes it fearsome ends up being useless. By 5th edition, only low-level characters need to be careful if they encounter one as they probably don’t have magical items yet. But then again, losing your longsword at level 2 isn’t that big of a deal. With the way the gold economy works, what else do you have to spend your money on?
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Wrestling Observer Rewind ★ May 13, 2002

Going through old issues of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter and posting highlights in my own words. For anyone interested, I highly recommend signing up for the actual site at f4wonline and checking out the full archives.
PREVIOUSLY:
1-7-2002 1-14-2002 1-21-2002 1-28-2002
2-4-2002 2-11-2002 2-18-2002 2-25-2002
3-4-2002 3-11-2002 3-18-2002 3-25-2002
4-1-2002 4-8-2002 4-15-2002 4-22-2002
4-29-2002 5-6-2002
  • Okay, look, here's the deal. The obituaries, as sad as they are, contain some of Dave's best work. But good lord, they are looooooooooong. And they never contain anything newsworthy that is relevant to 2002 or anything. But they're always super interesting from a historical perspective. But last week, Dave wrote a brief obit for Lou Thesz (only 5,000 words, ahem) and promised to go into more detail this week. So this week, we open with a 16,000+ word obituary for Lou Thesz and I just can't. Sorry. It's really good though, you should all go read it. But I've got, like, a family and a job and responsibilities and stuff. I can't recap this. It's an incredible piece of work though.
  • The World Wrestling Federation is no more. On May 5th, the company unveiled its new name, World Wrestling Entertainment. Dave recaps the history of the company briefly (was originally called "World Wide Wrestling Federation, or WWWF, until 1979 when it was shortened to WWF, which is has remained for the past 23 years). But as of this week, the company has been rebranded to WWE. The website domain was changed to WWE.com and all references to "WWF" were changed to "WWE." The scratch logo was also changed, with the F being removed, so now it simply looks like "WW" (which, honestly, never really did make much sense to me. Even though the logo has changed, it's still "WW" to this day). Anyway, this all stems from the World Wildlife Fund lawsuit over in the UK, in which the WWE lost every court case and appeal. They were planning to appeal the ruling in the UK's highest court, their final last-ditch effort to save their name, but the reality is, they weren't going to win that case. Vince McMahon and the company blatantly and repeatedly violated the agreement they signed in 1994. It was 1000% obvious they were in the wrong here and they had gotten spanked by every single court before, often losing their appeals by unanimous decisions. So they weren't going to win this final appeal either and they knew it. So they dropped the appeal and threw in the towel and finally agreed to just change the name. The WWE has until May 15th to remove all references to "WWF" from their shows and merchandise. Any merch with "WWF" on it can no longer be sold after that date. All video packages and posters will have to be changed and any "WWF" mention or logos after that time on television or in past footage will have to be censored. Last year, during the court case, the WWE claimed it would cost them more than $50 million to change their name and to deal with all the legal and rebranding headaches that come with it. But this week, they backtacked on that and said it wouldn't be that expensive after all. Who knows if that's true, but the idea of this costing $50 million was enough to make the shareholders shit themselves, so Dave says they claimed it won't cost that much in order to keep the stock from plummeting. Anyway, none of this had to happen. In 1994, Vince McMahon and the Wildlife Fund signed an agreement that the wrestling company would not use the "WWF" name for promoting itself outside of the U.S. (since the Wildlife group is based overseas) and that worked well for a year or two. But then Vince McMahon apparently decided, "Meh, who cares about agreements?" and began repeatedly and blatantly violating it, constantly, for years, at which point the Wildlife group finally got upset enough to file a lawsuit. Anyway, on the first Raw since the name change, Jim Ross and Jerry Lawler repeatedly stumbled over the new initials, accidentally saying "WWF" multiple times. Gonna take time for everyone to get used to calling it the new name.
  • The buyrates for Wrestlemania 18 are in and it appears the event will have to settle for being the #2 biggest money show in wrestling history after it came up short and failed to surpass Wrestlemania 17. Final numbers aren't in yet, but latest estimates put it somewhere around the 800,000 buys range (ended up being about 880,000) which is quite a bit down from WM17. It was also #2 in total revenue from live gate and merch. Internally, it's actually being seen as something of a disappointment because with the power of the Hogan/Rock dream match, they were hopeful this show would top 1 million buys but unless something drastic changes with these buyrate numbers, it looks like the final total will be a good bit short of that.
  • NJPW's latest Tokyo Dome show is in the books. The show drew a sellout crowd of 57,000 fans, there to see the Masahiro Chono vs. Mitsuharu Misawa dream main event (which ended up going to a 30-minute draw). It was the biggest non-Jan. 4 crowd NJPW has drawn to the Dome in 2 years. So that's the good news. The bad news is that the show flopped in the ratings on TV. A big part of that is because the Chono/Misawa match didn't air as part of the show (due to the Asahi-TV/Nippon TV network issues discussed in past issues) so the televised show was built around the Shinya Hashimoto/Naoya Ogawa vs. Scott Norton/Hiroyoshi Tenzan match and man, the fans sure didn't seem to give a fuck about that. In fact, the rating was so bad that there's concern that this will be the end of pro wrestling on prime time TV in Japan for the foreseeable future. But there are justifiable reasons for the rating. The show went head-to-head with the Kirin Cup soccer tournament, which was a huge deal and did more than double the rating the NJPW show did. Unlike the U.S., wrestling and "real" sports in Japan have a major crossover audience, so having real sports competition severely hurt NJPW's show. Also, while Ogawa is a draw as a singles star, putting him in a tag match against Norton and Tenzan isn't exactly setting the world on fire. The show lasted 6 hours, which was way too long and the crowd was burned out before Misawa vs. Chono even started.
  • Other notes from the NJPW show: it opened with an hour long 30th anniversary ceremony. They had a 10-bell salute for Lou Thesz and brought out a bunch of legendary NJPW names from the 70s and 80s. Then they did an angle where Antonio Inoki came out to give a speech, but he was attacked by Tiger Jeet Singh. But then Chyna made the save, attacking Singh, running him out of the ring, and challenging him to a match. Inoki's ex-wife, famous Japanese actress Mitsuko Baisho then made an appearance, getting a huge pop, and she and Inoki did his famous catch phrase to kick off the show. Minoru Suzuki of Pancrase (who started with NJPW as a pro wrestler) was also there. Jushin Ligher and Minoru Tanaka won the IWGP Jr. tag titles and then Liger challenged several NOAH wrestlers who were at ringside (most notably KENTA) and they all jumped in the ring and it ended with a staredown. The Steiner Brothers reunited to face Hiroshi Tanahashi and Kensuke Sasaki, with Chyna as the special referee. Tanahashi was working hurt, but he still worked. They did a spot where Tanahashi ran into Chyna and he went down off the bump instead of her and Dave seems annoyed by this since Tanahashi is a guy they really need to be pushing who can be a huge star for this company. Dave doesn't like him selling bumps for Chyna. Anyway, decent match but the Steiners basically steamrolled them and Tanahashi was pinned by Scott Steiner. Chyna then challenged several All Japan Women at ringside as well as Scott Steiner, Tanahashi, Sasaki, and even IWGP champion Yuji Nagata, saying she wanted a title match. Dave thinks this company has lost its damn mind. Speaking of Nagata, he retained his title in the next match. And then, of course, the main event. Usually during interpromotional matches, the crowd is always super pro-NJPW but this time, they went insane for Misawa and it was clear there were a ton of NOAH fans in the building. Chono did some Inoki moves and Misawa did some Great Baba moves, to kinda have a spiritual "Baba vs. Inoki" tribute in the match I guess. Ended in a draw and by the time it was over, no matter how big the dream match was, the crowd was burned out and weren't as hype for the match as you might expect once the entrances were done.
WATCH: Misawa vs. Chono highlights
  • Goldberg has received a full buy-out of his WCW contract from Time Warner and as of this week, he is now an unsigned free agent. Goldberg did not request the buy-out, the decision was made by the Time Warner side after the most unprofitable quarter in their history. The company was looking to cut expenses, even at a loss, just so the books can look better in future quarters. Goldberg reportedly received almost all of his remaining salary (more than 90% of the nearly $3 million he was still owed) in order to get him off their books. When Goldberg realized he's going to be a free agent a year earlier than expected, talks with WWE started up. But as usual, they went nowhere. WWE (I feel like I'm having to get used to typing that all over again. Really does feel like 2002 again) has interest in him, especially given the way ratings continue to plummet lately. But Goldberg has always wanted more than WWE is willing to pay. Plus, they're feeling burned right now after signing Hall and Nash to big money, long-term contracts for part-time work, only to have Nash get injured and Hall likely to get himself fired at any moment (that moment is coming sooner than you think), and neither of them really getting over in any meaningful way. Even Hogan, who is also making big money for a reduced schedule, was hot for a minute and boosted ratings and buyrates. But after only a few months, that train already seems to be out of steam and TV ratings are back to floundering with Hogan as champion leading the shows. So WWE is kinda gun-shy on opening the checkbook and paying out the ass for these big stars, futilely hoping that one of them is the quick-fix that can stop the bleeding.
  • There's also the question of how Goldberg would fit within the WWE locker room. He hasn't been shy about his dislike for Triple H, dating back to WCW when Triple H trashed Goldberg in a radio interview and saying that even if Goldberg was available, they wouldn't want him (which, at the time, when WCW was still alive and Goldberg was the biggest star in the company, is just about the dumbest thing he could have said. In 1998, WWF would have gladly traded 10 Triple H's for Goldberg). Anyway, Goldberg took the comment personally and even confronted Triple H face-to-face at the Toy Fair convention in New York a couple of years ago, in a bit of an ugly scene where Goldberg was yelling at him and Triple H and Stephanie kept their heads down and said nothing. Goldberg also has a lot of dislike for Scott Hall, which is another of Triple H's good friends, so ya know. The latest on Goldberg is that he's considering working some in Japan but he's just fielding offers right now. Word is he's interested in working with PRIDE as well as NJPW. Of course, if he's looking to maximize his money potential, WWE is still the place to go if you want to make big bucks. If promoted right, matches against Rock, Austin, Triple H, and others could do huge buyrates. And if they keep Goldberg and Austin apart for a year and build to a match with them at Wrestlemania, well, needless to say, that show would set records. Dave talks about how Goldberg got nuclear hot in 1998 and even in 1999, he was the biggest drawing wrestler in the business. But by 2000, the company was dying, Goldberg was injured, and "Jesus Chris with an Etch-a-Sketch" couldn't have drawn in WCW. Dave again does the math and talks about how WWE should have brought Goldberg in for the Invasion angle. Yes, it would have cost them a lot of money and upset the salary structure, but he would have more than made up for it with the kind of buyrates he could have drawn with those dream matches and the Invasion angle might have had a chance. But alas.
  • And of course, who's to say how WWE would use Goldberg? They already have Brock Lesnar and they're currently giving him the unstoppable monster push. Lesnar is bigger, younger, and a more legitimate athlete (for whatever that's worth). And WWE probably isn't going to give Goldberg an endless string of jobbers to beat. In WWE, he's going to be expected to work longer matches, sell for people, etc. They won't book him the way WCW did so who knows how he'd get over in WWE? If they wanted to build to an Austin/Goldberg match, it would make sense that Goldberg first has to plow through guys like Triple H, Undertaker, etc. And politically, that just ain't gonna happen. Dave doubts NJPW can afford him for anything more than one or two big shows. As for PRIDE, he could probably make a lot of money there, but the problem is.....PRIDE is a shoot. They haven't had "worked" matches in a couple of years and doing so now would kill their credibility. Which means Goldberg would have to go into a legit shoot and one embarrassing loss there would severely hurt his future earning potential. In the end, Dave thinks it's inevitable that Goldberg will end up in WWE, but probably not any time soon. But he's certain it will eventually happen. There's too much money on the line for both sides and WWE's ratings woes are making them desperate, so it'll happen some day (yup, less than a year from this).
  • And the moment is here! For those of you who had "under 3 months" in the "How long will Scott Hall last?" pool, come collect your prize. Scott Hall was released by the WWE this week due to misbehavior on the European tour. Firstly, he went on a drunken binge during the entire tour and was even worse on the plane ride home (much more on that in a bit). Dave says this was inevitable. WCW fired him. Even ECW stopped using him when he got arrested at one point. And even though he was seemingly behaving during his Japan tours, even NJPW cut ties with him shortly before he went back to WWE because they were fed up with some of his antics. And now WWE has fired him. Dave talks about how Hall made a drunken spectacle of himself in the locker room on his very first day back in WWE, before the NWO even debuted on TV, then he showed up in Toronto for Wrestlemania in no condition to perform (later came out that he was hungover from the night before), which caused Austin to insist on ending their feud at WM (which was the plan, but Dave says Austin has continued working with Hall afterwards simply because they don't really seem to have any other credible opponents for him). Hall's match with Bradshaw at Backlash was an embarrassment and the night before that show, agents had to help him back to his hotel. Just endless incidents like this. In Europe, Hall was such a blatant drunken mess that even the other wrestlers were calling for him to be fired. Hall was 45 minutes late for the bus they all took to London and then passed out in the locker room during the show. On the plane ride back, he was starting fights with people and eventually passed out and it got to the point that people were worried about his health. When they got back to the U.S. for Raw, they literally had to wake him up from a drunken stupor backstage to send him to the ring to do his segment (and yes, he wrestled). After the show, they fired him. No one came to his defense, and even Hall's closest friends are now admitting that he simply can't handle the pressures of being on the road and being released is the best thing for him right now. Dave talks about how a lot of wrestlers have been fired in the last couple of years for drug and alcohol issues and that's all well and good, but the big problem is why hire them in the first place? Scott Hall's issues were not a secret. It wasn't like he cleaned himself up before he came to WWE. He was getting in trouble and collecting arrests like Pokemon all the way up until the day they brought him back. Anyway, Hall had a 2-year deal, believed to be worth $600,000-per-year downside for only 10 dates per month. So a really sweet deal, but it's gone now.
  • Hey, speaking of that European tour, turns out there was a bit of trouble on the flight back to the U.S. Perhaps you've heard of it. Most of the trouble wasn't even due to Scott Hall. Turns out Vince McMahon didn't make the trip and lots of people decided that was a good reason to cut loose and have fun. Plus, since everyone has seen Hall get away with being drunk 24/7 for the last few months, they figured nobody would get in trouble. So....folks got DRUNK. Among the various incidents on this flight: Goldust got on the speaker system and began drunkenly serenading his ex-wife Terri with love songs. Terri was extremely uncomfortable and begged him to stop and then Jim Ross had to go sit him down. Ric Flair also "started to get wild" but Jim Ross calmed him down as well (Dave doesn't seem to know just yet exactly what Flair "getting wild" entailed, but if you don't know, it involved getting totally naked except for his robe and started helicoptering his dick at flight attendants. And it gets worse if you feel like researching it. The flight attendants later filed a lawsuit against Flair and accused him of sexual assault). Curt Hennig was spraying people with shaving cream and he kept trying to get Brock Lesnar to fight him. Lesnar, being a newcomer, didn't know how to handle it and didn't want to get in trouble, but he ain't gonna let Hennig talk shit to him either. So anyway, Lesnar got up and basically annihilated Hennig, repeatedly taking him to the ground and embarrassing him because, well, of course he did. It's Brock Lesnar. At one point, Lesnar slammed Hennig up against the side of the plane, right into the emergency exit door, which freaked everybody out for obvious reasons. Michael Hayes got into a scuffle with Bradshaw and then tried to pick a fight with Hall (although everyone on the plane said Hall had it coming). Anyway, Hayes was apparently obnoxious as hell and annoyed everyone. But then he made the mistake of falling asleep and someone (believed to be X-Pac) cut his hair off. When Hayes woke up, he was furious and tried to fight several people. The next day at the Raw tapings, his entire mullet was in a plastic bag, pinned to the wall of the locker room for everyone to see. Gerald Brisco, Arn Anderson, and Hayes all caught a ton of heat from Vince afterward since they were the people who were supposed to be in charge. Anderson and Hayes especially, since their jobs are to keep the boys under control, but they were apparently having just as much fun as everyone else. Everyone's waiting to see how Vince is going to handle this situation. As noted, Hall was already fired and Hayes got an earful from Vince, Stephanie, and JR at Raw the next day, but there will likely be more fallout. Undertaker was also said to be furious over how out of hand everything got (I'm sure we haven't heard the last of this).
  • Anyway, while they were in Europe, WWE presented its latest UK PPV, Insurexxtion. As usual with the UK PPVs, this was little more than a glorified house show. They announced the show as sold out, but there were empty seats everywhere. RVD vs. Eddie Guerrero for the IC title was the show-stealer according to every report Dave heard, and was said to be far better than their Backlash match. Brock Lesnar teamed with Shawn Stasiak (lol wut) and lost to the Hardyz. Brock beat up everybody after the match. Triple H beat Undertaker in the main event and Dave doesn't know why since Undertaker is the one challenging Hogan for the title at the next PPV. The top rope broke during the match when they did an Irish whip into the corner and when the rope snapped, a metal piece broke off from the corner and flew into the crowd and barely missed hitting a small child in the face.
  • Smackdown on 5/2 drew the all-time lowest rating in the history of the show. Dave says that's the scariest thing to happen to WWF in the past 5 years. It was also the 3rd lowest rating for any Smackdown or Raw dating back to 1998. The rating was a full 18% drop from the week before, which was already scary. The rating was even lower than previous holiday episodes. So what was the problem? Well, it was headlined by Hogan defending the WWF title against Chris Jericho (as it turns out, the final time the "WWF" title was ever defended). Dave says the title has been meaningless for years now and Hogan's steam is running out. And Jericho hasn't recovered from spending the first part of the year being emasculated and playing second fiddle to Stephanie McMahon in the Wrestlemania feud. Add all that together and you've got a recipe for a shit ratings night. Among other things. Dave isn't blaming this all on Hogan and Jericho by any means, there's a lot of problems with the company as of late, from bad storylines to failing to make new stars, and it's all starting to come home to roost.
  • Keiji Muto wrestled a match in AJPW under his alternate gimmick of Kokushi Muso. Turns out "Great Muta" isn't his only other persona. The Kokushi Muso gimmick is basically like Hakushi in WWF, where he's covered his entire body in Japanese writing. He originally debuted the gimmick in Michinoku Pro last year, when teaming with....Hakushi (Jinsei Shinzaki, who occasionally brought back the old Hakushi gimmick in Japan). Anyway, same thing here. He teamed with Hakushi for this match, while using that gimmick (Muto would use that gimmick a handful of times throughout the years, always when teaming with Hakushi. It's like that was only his gimmick for that team. The last time he used it was in 2009, also in a tag match with Hakushi).
  • Former NOAH Jr. champion Naomichi Marufuji underwent knee surgery this week and should be out around 6 months (ends up being 9 months).
  • NJPW is doing an angle (according to Dave) similar to the Vince/Flair angle last year where Antonio Inoki and Masahiro Chono are battling over control of the company. Although it's more realistic. Inoki is in the press talking about how many of NJPW's shows aren't doing well and is pushing for them to use Naoya Ogawa more, while Chono doesn't want to. Inoki is also saying Chono needs to retire from wrestling and focus his energies on managing the day-to-day business of the promotion full-time. Dave says this is an angle, but it doesn't sound like much of one to me, and I think later years have kinda proven there was a lot of blurring between fiction and reality here, because there was a ton of behind the scenes turmoil in NJPW during this period.
  • Will Smith appeared alongside Antonio Inoki at the Japanese movie premiere for the film "Ali" based on Muhammad Ali's life. Crowd went absolutely insane for Inoki (I've tried like hell and can't even find a picture of them together. But then again, I can't find a single pic from the premiere at all).
  • When reviewing the recent Dos Caras Jr. shoot fight in Japan, Dave talks about the guy's potential as a wrestler. He has a strong amateur background, legit shoot skills, and a famous name. Dave thinks, if he's even halfway a decent worker, he can almost be a guaranteed star in Mexico (based on his name alone) and probably Japan too, if he decides to pursue that career (indeed he did, and indeed, he was fairly decent at it. Of course, he later became Alberto Del Rio, accused rapist and pretty much confirmed all-around piece of shit).
  • Former long-time WCW referee Randy Anderson passed away this week after a long battle with testicular cancer. Back when WCW was still around and he first got diagnosed, they did an angle out of it where Eric Bischoff fired him and then laughed at his wife and kids when they begged him to give Anderson his back. Of course, he was later re-hired when Flair became on-screen commissioner and continued to referee until 1999 when the cancer forced him to retire.
  • Random news and notes: Bobby Heenan is said to be in good spirits and is especially excited because WWE recently contacted him about doing a WWE Magazine feature on him. Verne Gagne's wife Mary passed away from cancer this week. Goldberg will be appearing on this week's Wrestling Observer Live show to be interviewed. Mil Mascaras is releasing an autobiography (in Spanish of course) and man, I'd love to find an English translation of that because I bet it'd be interesting. Chyna appeared on "Sabrina The Teenage Witch" this past week.
WATCH: Chyna on Sabrina The Teenage Witch
  • Bruno Sammartino turned down an invitation to attend the Pro Wrestling Hall of Fame ceremony in New York (yes, that HOF existed and still does, in a different city now). Bruno did an interview with the local paper and said "Wrestling is how I made my living and supported my family, but it's over. I don't want anything to do with it anymore." Bruno managed to turn the discussion to the WWE, despite them not having any affiliation with this HOF and grumbled about how Vince McMahon blocked him from being inducted into the Madison Square Garden Hall of Fame. However, the new MSG owners have apparently promised Bruno he'll be inducted this year, since he sold the place out 200 times (Dave jumps in here to correct it and says the real number of sellouts is closer to 45. Bruno only main evented the Garden 127 times and by no means were they all sell-outs. But it's one of those myths that has been perpetuated for so long that Dave begrudgingly recognizes that people are always going to believe the 200 number is true, but it's not even close. He compares it to the claim that Andre The Giant was 7'4, which also wasn't true but people repeated the lie so often that it became accepted as fact).
  • Afa Anoa'i Jr., the son of the legendary Wild Samoan, is a star football player at his high school and is being recruited for Penn State. He also sometimes wrestles on his father's indie shows (that would be Manu, who was very briefly part of Legacy with Orton, Dibiase Jr., and Cody).
  • Former WCW announcer Scott Hudson will be doing commentary for Jerry Jarrett's new promotion, and Bob Ryder is said to be in a major front office position.
  • Jarrett has put out a press release saying that his new promotion has had talks with Randy Savage and Ultimate Warrior. Word is Warrior wanted a 15% ownership stake in the new company, which pretty much ended those talks right there. They're also apparently interested in Scott Hall now too, with the idea that since they're only doing 1 show per week, he won't be a screw-up here. Dave is skeptical. Anyway, currently Road Dogg and Brian Christopher expected to be some of the company's top stars and Dave's not optimistic.
  • XWF wrestlers were told last week that a television deal should hopefully be finalized this week. But Dave has been told no chance it's happening that soon. The rumors are that the deal is either with the FX or Fox Kids networks. Ted Turner had inquired about buying this promotion a few months ago, but when he learned how much it would cost to get them off the ground and make them competitive, he lost interest (TV deal never materializes, company is already dead, etc. etc.).
  • The Scorpion King slipped to 2nd place this week, falling to the new Spider Man movie which did a record breaking $114 million opening weekend. Randy Savage has a small role in that movie.
  • Speaking of, The Rock worked his first match in about a month at a Fort Lauderdale house show, teaming with Hogan to beat Jericho and Angle. After the match, Hogan tried to get Rock to pose with him, but Rock wouldn't do it. Rock thanked the fans for the success of Scorpion King and said it would likely be his last match for awhile. There was a ton of local media there, but Rock didn't talk to any of them. Basically, the house show was in his neck of the woods and he simply decided to show up and work it just so he could see his friends and hang out with the locker room, he had no interest in doing interviews. He was just there because he wanted to be. Backstage, Rock was telling people that Hollywood higher-ups have told him he has to leave the wrestling business if he wants to be taken seriously as an actor. Those in the company feel it's a certainty that Rock really is leaving and he's likely going to break out of wrestling into Hollywood and actually become a rare success story (yeah, you could say that).
  • Look how long this is already. Imagine if I had covered that Lou Thesz obituary in full. JUST IMAGINE!
  • Notes from Raw: Dave compares it to an episode of Thunder, with the crowd half-dead for everything. Also, the roster was exhausted after just returning from the Europe trip (and the plane ride shenanigans) and that was apparent too. Brock Lesnar won his match via pinfall instead of the usual ref stoppage and Dave says that word is Triple H got in Vince's ear and convinced him to end the ref stoppage gimmick for Brock. Sure, why not? Hogan was supposed to ride off on Undertaker's bike at one point, but then the motorcycle wouldn't start. It was one of those awkward live-TV moments where time stood still and nobody knew what to do. Flair finally turned heel on Austin, to a shocking lack of heat from the crowd. Nash returned, etc. Dave recaps the rest of this show and it sounds like a lot of bad WCW stuff, coincidentally enough with a lot of the same people.
WATCH: Hogan can't start the motorcycle
  • The man who played the effeminate gay guy applying to be Vince McMahon's secretary on Smackdown a few weeks ago was new creative team member David Lagana. He recently joined the company and has written for several other TV shows, including "Friends" and has a strong knowledge of the industry (Dave says if you've been reading the Observer closely for the last few years, you're probably familiar with him, he's written in to Dave a lot over the years).
  • Dave goes on a brief rant about how to use older stars. In the past, everyone, even Vince McMahon, talked about how you should use guys like Hogan and Flair in small doses and how WCW's reliance on older stars like that is what made them less special. Dave talks about back in the day in Memphis, Jackie Fargo would come back once or twice a year and he was always the biggest star in the company when he did. Because he was used sparingly. But WWE has pretty much built its company around Hogan and Flair (and to a lesser extent, Vince and Undertaker) over the last few months and they've been totally overexposed because of it. Just 6 weeks ago, Hulk Hogan was getting some of the largest crowd reactions in the history of the business. Now, he and Undertaker are practically hearing crickets during their on-screen interactions.
  • Lita underwent neck surgery this week and isn't allowed to do anything physical for 9 months. Scotty 2 Hotty also had neck surgery and is expected to be out for about a year. Both are expected to make full recoveries though.
  • Jesse Ventura admitted this week that he received WWF stock options as partial payment for some work he did with them. Dave doesn't know if it's related to the Summerslam appearance a few years ago or the XFL announcing gig. Ventura says he has 10 years to exercise those stock options but wouldn't give any further details.
  • Scott Steiner told WWA he will work their next UK tour but after that, he's going to WWE. Dave is skeptical. Reports are that Steiner was in horrible pain after every match he worked on the last WWA tour and there's significant doubt that his body will hold up to a WWE schedule.
  • The new Steve Austin "What!" DVD has a lot of WCW footage, including the full Austin vs. Steamboat match from WCW Bash at the Beach 94. Dave doesn't say so, but I believe this is the first time WWE used any of the WCW library for commercial release after they purchased it the year before.
  • Someone writes in and asks Dave to stop spending so much time writing about steroid use in wrestling and instead says he should write a story about racism in the business. This person writes about the allegations from years back of Dusty Rhodes using the N-work with impunity, or the time DX parodied the Nation by wearing blackface. The WCW discrimination lawsuit, the embarrassing angles they've done with Mark Henry such as Sexual Chocolate, etc. This guy is asking why is it white wrestlers outnumber black wrestlers by 35-to-1 ratio in the U.S. (70-to-1 in Mexico and 80-to-1 in Japan). He wants to know why Dave isn't writing about that stuff. Dave responds and agrees that the blackface DX promo was racist, and it was racist when Buff Bagwell did it in WCW and when Roddy Piper did it in the 80s. Dave says wrestling, especially from the 70s through the 90s, had a horrible history of exploiting stereotypes and/or saying and doing racist things. You can argue it's gotten better, but no doubt the problem still exists. Dave lists some examples but he also pushes back on some others. For example, he's heard people complain that Booker T isn't being used properly due to his race and Dave disagrees. It's true that Booker T probably deserves a bigger push, but you can make the same case for guys like RVD and Jericho and Raven or DDP (when he first debuted, at least) and that didn't happen either, so Dave doesn't necessarily think Booker's lack of top-star push can be blamed on his race (we're less than a year away from Triple H definitively proving otherwise).
  • There's also 2 letters about the Rock/Hogan match at Wrestlemania and they couldn't be more different. One guy writes in and he can't understand why people are praising that match because if you put aside the hot crowd, it was awful, everyone's moves looked bad, it was embarrassing, etc. and says Hogan should have retired afterward. Then someone else writes in and says he was there live and, taken as a whole, Rock vs. Hogan was the greatest match he's ever seen. Basically the same "love it or hate it" opinion people have about that match to this day. Also, someone else writes in about the recent Low-Ki vs. American Dragon match from an ROH show and puts it up there among some of the greatest matches of all time (listing off several classic WWF matches like Shawn/Razor and Owen/Bret at WM10 for example). So there ya go.
NEXT WEDNESDAY: more fallout from the Plane Ride from Hell, more on the beginning of Jarrett's new NWA-TNA promotion, more on the NJPW Tokyo Dome show, and more...
submitted by daprice82 to SquaredCircle [link] [comments]

OBLIGATORY FILLER MATERIAL – BAR FIGHT? NOT WITH DOC BIONICFINGERS! Part one.

That reminds me of a story.
I’m going cooped-up crazy. Shacky-wacky. Hotel doldrums have set in.
Yes, I know. Es and I just got back from a resounding tour of a shipbreaking yard in India.
Flew way above First Class.
Never had to even touch our luggage.
♫Oh, what fun it is to charter flights. Limos all the way. Hey! ♫.
But, the hotel bars here are paling quickly. Quiet. Too quiet. Same old, dull, dazed, and dormant crowd. The Expat population in Dubai is dwindling mightily. The COVID craziness is a madness that is taking a heavy toll. Everything’s shut down. Everyone’s staying at home.
I’m almost nostalgic for a good old Dubai 35 car pile-up and traffic jam.
Es sees that I’m in a quandary. She had quite a few friends here in Dubai. The ones I had have all left due to cratering oil prices or they’re what’s considered an ‘essential employee’, and thus unavailable.
“ROCK! QUIT YOUR PACING!” Es says in her most inimitable manner. “YOU’RE MAKING ME CRAZY!”
“A thousand pardons, my darling. But, Boditek. I suffer! Klytus, I’m bored. Bored out of my fucking mind. I can only write so much on the Precambrian Hydrocarbon reservoirs of Eastern Siberia. Television’s a bust, there’s no Netflix, even Pirate Bay is blocked here, and I’m going spare!” I whimper.
“Go then. Begone with thee. Go find a dark bar and grab a seat on Mahogany Ridge. You need a night off. Just take your fingers with so you won’t scare the locals. And be home before they open the borders. We want to be first in line when that happens” she says.
“By your command!”, I say, grab her around the waist, give her a spin, a quick smooch on the cheek, and pat on the backside before I hit the stairs in our suite in a flat-out gallop to retrieve my now charged digits from their charging port on my nightstand.
A few minutes later…
Stately, plump Dr. Rocknocker came from the stairhead bearing three incredibly expensive technologically-derived Kevlar-ed digits. He was clad in his finest Desert Fox chino shorts, freshly cleaned and oiled field boots, a new pair of jade Merino Rannoch Luxury Country Socks, best new Hawaiian drinking shirt, a Blasting technician T-shirt and black, recently blocked, Stetson.
He was so full of himself, that he actually stopped talking about his own self in the narrative in the third person.
“Esme? Darling? I’m off!” I say with a lilt in my voice and a cheeseburger in my pocket.
But that’s another story.
“You’re off, all right”, Es chuckles. “Now Rock, remember. This is the first time in a long time I’m letting you off the chain, out unsupervised among the general population. Don’t break anyone if you can avoid it and even if someone needs a quick killing, remember, you’re on vacation. OK?”
“Oh, my dear!” I chuckle and snicker, “You know me. I wouldn’t kill anyone here in Dubai. There’s no money in it.”
“Still. Best behavior?” She admonishes.
“I can’t guarantee anything, but I will try,” I reply.
“Pinkie promise?” she requests.
Damn. One of the few fingers of which left I have a natural set.
Now I can’t say that it was just a Kevlar-coated contract.
“But of course”, I say as we entwine pinkies. Hers nice, clean, and pink; mine keloidal, gnarled, and scarred.
Yeah, it about makes me retch. But Es sort of enjoys these silly things now and again.
I’m waiting in the hotel bar for my cab to arrive. I have a quick Long Island Iced Tea or three before I hit the streets. I’ve got this weird hankering for a sports bar. Don’t know why. I hate football, i.e., soccer, cricket, and those other weird forms of ball chasing they call sports over here.
But I yearn to be in a bar full of leather, hewn wood, and smoke. Attended by the smell of manly men drinking as they see fit.
In Dubai? Fat chance.
I ask my driver, who has just arrived, and who will be with me all night; if he minds me smoking, having a drink in a plain brown wrapper, and if he knows of a decent sports bar in Dubai.
No.
Nope.
Quantum Sports Bar.
“It’s sort of pricey”, he tells me.
My driver for the duration is one Roy Toisuta, an Indonesian chap who looks like he fell off a charm bracelet. In reality, I could make up three of him. But he’s affable, quick on the gas and bound to be a boon companion.
He is wiry in that whipsaw sort of kill-you-with-a-paperclip-1000-different-ways sort of manner. Like the human personification of a gaunt wolverine.
We’ll get along famously.
He tells me he doesn’t drink for whatever reason. He announces that he would wait for me out in the car while I go in and do whatever one does in a Sports Bar in Dubai for a few hours.
“Look, Roy”, I say, “I’m on retainer. C’mon in and I’ll buy you dinner and all the coffee, tea, or fizz water you could want. I just need someone non-judgmental. See, I have this affliction. I’m an alcohol-fueled carbon-based organism. I tend to drink a lot, but only to excess. You have any sort of problem with that?”
“Well, Rock”, he says, “As long as we’re being honest, I have no problem. The way I see it, the more you drink, the looser your wallet becomes.”
“I don’t suppose you’d care to lay a small wager on that conclusion?” I ask, leerily in that strange way I have that makes Komodo Dragons gulp in disbelief.
“I’ll bet, after what you told me about your recent confinement, that I’ll be dragging and/or carrying you out of the bar tonight. “ he snickers, dreaming of my very loose wallet and its contents. “You’re going to be tying one on, I can see that.”
“You can see me. But you can’t see my past” I think.
“Well, you’re not drinking, so what’s in it for me if I win?” I ask.
“A free driver for the next week?” he asks.
“Want to make it a month? I’m really, really thirsty.” I sneer.
“Make it a fortnight.”, he laughs. “Easiest money I’ve ever made. I can barely hold you back.”
“Deal”, as we shake hands. He notices my gloves for the first time.
“What’s that all about?” he asks.
“Industrial accident years ago. Not terribly pretty.” I say.
“Oh. OK. Ready to go?” He asks.
“Gentlemen”, I announce, “Forward. Drink!”
Roy accepts a cigar from one of my travel pocket humidors and we walk up to the entrance.
“You be who?” asks the doorman.
“Well, my good man, I am the Motherfucking Pro from Dover, and this is my able-bodied companion, Kato”, I say in my most affected Elliott Gould imitation.
“What?” he asks trying to corral at least two functioning synapses.
“Pardons. I’m Dr. Rocknocker and this is my trusty driver, Roy.” I continue.
“Ah. What? Hmm? Who?” was the response.
“Oh, I am sorry. Which word confused you?” I asked, most deferentially.
“You trying to be smart?” he asks.
“Well, I reckoned that at least one of us should,” I replied.
He sat there and fumbled with that reply like a nun in a warm bathtub fumbles with a bar of soap. You know the type, she has hope in her soul…
As he struggles to come up with an answer, I offer him a cigar the likes of which I’m certain he’s never seen outside of a Hollywoo movie.
“Here, my good man. My card.” I say as I hand over a large example of the perfection of the tobacconist’s art.
He gratefully accepts the cigar and removes the rope barrier.
“Have yourself a good time, gents.” He says.
“Oh. We intend to”, I reply.
“Ever need anything, just ask for Sandeep” the towering Nepali remarks with a smile.
“Thanks. Have a night yourself…”, I reply and stuff another cigar in his shirt pocket for later.
He grins wide as Dubai Creek and just as brown. He shoots me a wide smile and a universal thumbs-up sign.
“Best to make friends rather than antagonize the locals”, I muse.
“You’re an odd bird, Doctor Rocknocker.” Roy chortles.
“Roy, it’s just ‘Rock’, OK? It’ll save both time and cuts down on CO2 exhalations. And I’m all for protecting the environment.” I smiled back.
Roy chewed on that one for most the rest of the night.
The Sports Bar was quiet. Fairly empty, with probably more wait-persons than patrons.
One particularly buxom specimen of the female side of the equation welcomed us in an overtly and obviously affected mien. She wanted to show us to a table that was within the sphere of her waitressy influence.
“No, thank you”, I said as I spied acres and acres of glistening unoccupied Mahogany with tens of unoccupied seats that both faced the long bar and the several large-screen televisions there.
Seemingly bereft of people to wait and prey upon, she ignored us roundly. To her financial detriment as we would all find out during the course of the evening.
I chose a likely looking seat at the bar and Roy joined me, cautiously, a seat or two away.
“I don’t bite, Roy”, I said.
“Social distancing”, he replied.
“Ah. Well, I have a fully functional immune system as well as the hardest working liver in the galaxy. I assure you I’m in no way communicable.” I replied, slightly miffed. “Besides, after that cab ride here, whatever ætiology I have, you have as well, and vice versa.”
He scooted over one seat but shuttled that seat back to the right about 15 more centimeters.
“Some folks just don’t like their personal space invaded”, I surmised.
I pulled out one of my cigar cases, a cutter, lighter, and a stack of currencies that I was going to try and get rid of that night.
I had freshly minted UK Pounds, Euros of many nations, Indian Rupees, Russian Rubles, Japanese Yen, Chinese Renmimbi, some Uzbek Som, Afghani Afghans, Argentinian Pesos, down under Ozzian Dollarydoos, Mongolian Tugriks, Omani Rials, a few Samoan Tālā, and a bunch of US dollars.
How I ended up with that last group remains a mystery.
Roy goggled at the stack of weirdly colored and weirdly wonderful currencies of many nations.
“Sorry, Roy”, I said, “No Indonesian rupiah. Haven’t been to Jakarta in a long time.”
“What the hell are those weird ones there?” he asked.
“Which ones?” I chuckled back.
It was at that time our reverie was broken.
The bartender, one Zac O'Madden, an Irish national currently working for the hotel to which this bar is attached, interrupts our nascent debauch and asks for our drink orders.
“Not so fast there!” I say. “Introductions first. We’re not savages here.”
Zac chuckles. “You’re obviously American.”
“Вы уверены в этом? [Are you certain of that?]”, I say in return.
Zac just stands there and laughs.
“Та үнэхээр итгэлтэй байна уу? [Are you really certain?]” I ask in Mongolian. “Ĉu vi vere certas? Bạn có thực sự chắc chắn?”
“You’re as Russian or whatever that was as I am Kenyan. Now I know it. You’re American.” He says assuredly.
“And you have this nasty habit of being correct. I’m Dr. Rocknocker, call me Rock. This slight but solid fellow to my right is Roy, late of Jakarta and Krakatoa, actually west of Java.” I snicker.
“And I am Zac O’Madden, of Dublin and points east. Nice to meet you all. What can I get for you?” he asks.
After we shake hands in a very manly, indeed, manner, I ask Roy what is his pleasure.
“A tall club soda with a twist of lime, on the rocks.” He replies offhandedly.
“You’ve done this before”, I observe rather unnecessarily. “Zac, Roy gets what he wants tonight, my tab. I’ll have a Sazerac, hold the sugar. Actually several. You see, on the flight over, I sat through another showing of ’Live and Let Die’, and now I miss Mardi Gras, New Orleans, and Pat O’Brien’s. But I don’t like sweet drinks.”
“Coming right up”, Zac says with a well-practiced swish of his bar rag.
“Oh, but I’m not finished. I’d also like a beer chaser. A pint of…ah, do you have a beer menu?” I ask, looking down the long row of tappers.
“Coming up”, he says, and races off to find me one.
A few minutes later he returns with my cocktail, Roy’s fizz water, and a bar beer menu.
I raise my glass to Zac and then to Roy. We clink and I say, “I like this guy. And I like this bar. We’re going to have us a large night.”
I drain my unsweet Sazerac in one go.
Hey. I was thirsty. Needs a scootch more absinthe I observe.
Roy and Zac just sort of stare, wide-eyed, as I peruse the beer menu.
Nice menu, nice diversity. Oh, very nice.
“I’ll have the Asahi Kuronama Black if you don’t mind. Plus another Sazerac, a bit more absinthe if you please. You see, I have this genetic condition I need to keep in balance.” I grinned.
Zac looked at me like I had some sort of adverse medical condition.
“You OK, Rock?” he asked most earnestly.
“Look, Zac, I just met you and you’re a hell of a tarbender, far be it from me to tell you your job, but you see, there is this…” I said, trailing off.
“Yes?” His was a look of genuine concern. The genuine concern he won’t own that pile of currency on the bar in front of me by the end of the night.
“Yeah. Genetics dealt me a weird hand. See. I’m an ethanol-fueled carbon-based organism…”
Roy just rolled his eyes.
Zac looked puzzled.
“Yeah, I require alcohol in good-tasting and heroic amounts on a regular basis. I also have to smoke huge, black cigars in order to moderate the bioreactor.” I smiled, as I leaned back and fired up a heater.
Zac looked at me. Chewed over what I said for a moment or two. He shrugged his shoulders, grabbed my empty glass, and said, “OK, whatever. Round two in moments.”
Roy went to ask me something, thought better of it, and just leaned over and grabbed my Zippo from Irkutsk.
He looked at the cameo-relief silver and amber city crest attached to the lighter, flipped it open, and tried firing up his cigar.
“They draw better if you cut the end first,” I said, absently; and not looking, just hand him my V-cutter.
Zac returns with a new Sazerac, a chilled bottle of Asahi Kuronama Black, a tall pilsner glass, and a new club soda for Roy.
I puffed my cigar, drained another Sazerac in one go, tried the Japanese black beer, and found it to my liking. I leaned back to observe what sort of sports carnage they were observing on the big screens.
Roy just looked at me with wide eyes but said nothing.
The evening wore on. After a couple or twelve more Sazeracs, I decided it was time to teach Zac the finer points of mixology via premium vodka, bubbly citrus, ice, and lime wheels.
I also found that they had a stock of Pabst Blue Ribbon 1844, from China.
“PBR!”, I almost yelled, “Holy wow! I grew up on the stuff.”
“Not this stuff, Rock”, Zac said, “Look at the price. We only got a small amount due to a shipping error. It’s not sold outside of China normally.”
It was UAE 165 per bottle, about US$45, and worth every dirham. Zak was amazed when I told him to go ahead and have one on Roy and me.
“Really, Rock?”, Zac exclaimed. “The usual buggers here are so tight, they hum when the wind blows. Hardly anyone buys me a drink. Except for you Americans. Finest kind.”
“That’s me. An international ambassador of amity and alcohol,”, I say and toast in his general direction. “Crack tubes!”
Roy was getting tired as a newt. Evidently not drinking, listening to old war stories, and watching recorded US Football games due to the COVID lack of anything live, can take its toll as well.
I’m going strong as I’m asking Zac to explain what the fuck cricket is all about.
“So, let me get this straight,” I say, ordering another double cocktail and a couple of PBR chasers for Zac and myself. “The guy on the mound runs up and pitches to the guy dressed in the body armor. He uses a bent 2x4 to defend the wicket, which, if I recall correctly, can be sticky. Then he keeps the aliens from stealing the stumps and burning them to ashes in Australia...”
“God”, Zac exclaims, “You’re fucking hopeless.”
“Everything I know about cricket I learned from the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the galaxy.” I smiled proudly.
“That was rather obvious…” Zac sheeshed. He left to attend to another patron, a loud and woozy Kiwi.
I looked at the source of all the bad noise and in my inattention, just clicked my full beer glass. I inadvertently violated Rule #1 and spilled a small soupçon of expensive, imported beer onto my left hand.
“Whoops!”, I said and stripped off my sodden left-hand glove. I used Zac’s bar towel to sop up the bar and dry my techno-digits.
Roy looked not only at my ‘whoops’, but goggled my Japanese one-off, so far, electro-fingers.
“Rock. What the hell, man. I mean, what the fuck. Are those for real?” he asked.
“Yeah, they are a new prototype and I’m the lab rat.”, I said, waggling them and seeing that something as mundane a beer spill could never possibly injure them.
By this time, Zac wanders back, sees I’ve used his bar rag, and looks at my hand for real for the first time.
“What the fuck, Rocko? You some sort of cyborg?” he asks.
“By definition; yes, I am. And my grandfather used to call me that. Thanks.”, I replied. “But, yeah, I’m an alcohol-fueled one at that,” I say, tapping and pointing rather pointedly at my currently unpopulated cocktail glass.
Zac returns with a reload. He and Roy demand to know the whole story.
“If you must pry…” I say.
“Oh, we must, we must”, they reply in unison.
So, I regale them with the tale of the Siberian rig. The blowout, fire, and the moderately overzealous Russian FNG.
“Rock, I don’t know if that’s true, but by your appearance, it has to be. Let me buy you a drink.” Zac says.
Roy asks for a Molson Light.
“Roy! You old fraud.” I said.
“I usually don’t drink. But after that story, I think I need something cold, wet, and with a little punch.” He said, staring at my hand.
“Then you’ve chosen well”, as I down another Rocknocker, sip at my PBR and snip a new cigar.
“Rock, can I ask you a question?” Roy asks. Zac is polishing our spot at the bar insistently. I think he has a question or two as well.
“Sure. Go nuts.” I reply, puffing on my new cigar and sipping this lovely amber 1844 brew.
He crouches conspiratorially and asks in a low sotto voce: “Is that why you drink as you do? To dull the pain? From the accident. That’s it, right? Isn’t it?” Roy asks, almost genuinely concerned.
I laughed loud and long. I chuckled, snorted, and had to calm myself with gulps of my beer and cocktail.
“Roy, Roy, Roy…I’ll let you in on a little secret. I’m from Baja Canada originally. I’m a multiply-degreed petroleum geologist. I’ve lived and worked in Russia for many, many years. And, as I’ve said, I’m an ethanol-fueled organism. Quadruple perfect storm. My fingers don’t hurt. Or they might, I have no idea. I don’t even know where hell they are.” I laughed at my own witty repartee.
Roy actually paled some. He took a long draught of his anemic beer and just stared at me.
Zac had disappeared. He presently returned with a bottle of Beluga Gold Line Vodka.
“Rock, after that, this one’s for you. On the house.” He said.
“Only if you will join me. And let me pay for yours.” I said.
Zac agrees.
The shnozzled Kiwi from previous in the narrative staggers by and hears the tag-end of our conversation.
He leans over to grab the expensive bottle of vodka and says “Don’t mind if I do.”
“None for you, asshole. You’re lucky I let you stay here waiting on a cab” Zac growls, and grabs the bottle away.
The Kiwi looks at Zac. He looks at Roy. Then he looks at me, my drinks, cigar, and the smaller pile of currency on the bar.
He may have been loaded, but something swam upstream against his internal current of booze and made him decide that right now, discretion was the better part of valor. He toddled unsteadily away.
“Asswipe”, Zac spits, “He’s here every other month. He pays for his drinks, but he can’t hold them. Never once tips or buys a round. General asshole. Still, management won’t let me toss nor ban him.”
“Some people”, I distastefully agreed and poured Zac and myself a healthy double-tot of the fine, smooth, and icy vodka. “I weep for our species sometimes.”
I insisted Zac join me. I asked Roy if he’d like a taste.
“Thanks, Rock. But you’ve already been too much of a bad influence on me.” he smiled, and tipped his almost empty pilsner glass.
“OK, no pressure. I may drink like a school of belugas, but if someone else doesn’t want to, I respect that all day long. Still, the offer stands.” I continue.
“I’ll think about it, Rock. I’m still not over how you can just sit there and joke about your cybernetic fingers and how you got them. I’d…I don’t know. I don’t want to think about it. “ he shudders.
“Want to see the scar on my leg where I got shot with a .45? Or the scar on my coconut from a hunk of falling ice on a drilling rig?” I asked.
“Fuck no!”, Roy almost screams. “What the hell. You held together by scar tissue?”
”That. Baling wire and Duct Tape.” I laughed, “And people wonder why I drink.”
“I thought so!” Roy exclaimed.
“I drink because I chose to. I can stop anytime. In fact, I stopped smoking and drinking once; by nothing more than sheer force of will.” I said proudly.
“Really?” Roy asked.
“Yep”, I replied, “It was the worst 45 minutes of my life.”
To be continued…
submitted by Rocknocker to Rocknocker [link] [comments]

Gambling Games In India

Gambling games and India:

Games of chance have always attracted passionate players and the appeal of Lady Luck never seemed to dwindle. They have thrived for thousands of years, even before written history and up to modern times when we can indulge in gambling on our electronic devices without even having to walk to the nearest casino establishment. Games have changed and flourished, but the passion for playing remained the same. India is a country that boasts a rich history when it comes to gambling and still nurtures a strong passion for it in various forms and guises. That said, it’s well worth taking a glance at the origins of casino games and how and where it all began.
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Gambling stories of ancient India
The Ramayana (one of two major Sanskrit epics of ancient India) cites certain forms of games of chance believed to date back as far as 7300 BC. It describes gambling boards, believed by some to be the game of chess, as well as gambling with dice. The popular saying ‘to lose one’s shirt’, meaning to lose money, originated in ancient India. The old Sanskrit texts compare trees that have been stripped of their fruit to defeated gamblers who lost their clothes and ornaments in a wager.
While the Ramayana casually mentions gambling and does not condone it in any sense of the word, the second epic (the Mahabharata) tells a different story. The main antagonist, Shakuni, arranges a dice game against king Yudhishthira whom he cheated out of all his wealth and kingdom. When another antagonist, Duryodhana, insisted that there was no place for two crown princes in the kingdom, another dice game was arranged which ended in the exile of the royal family.
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First Gambling Devices
Buddhist texts mention Indians gambling with nuts as dice as early as 300 BC. Apart from being fond of dice, Indians developed a taste for gambling on animals. At first, ram and cockfights were all the rage which was followed by the more sophisticated horse racing later. What is interesting is that while Europeans are generally given credit for developing certain games of chance, most of the earlier versions of gambling devices had Indian symbols on them.
Further Progress
The 15th century witnessed the rise of legal gambling houses all across India. They were heavily regulated to make sure the games were fair and square so that the players would willingly submit their dues to the king. This was the beginning of the first gambling tax.
When the British introduced cricket to India in the 18th century, Indians fell completely in love with the game. Cricket paved the way for sports betting which flourished in the country until the British took over and passed the Gambling Act in 1867 which outlawed all games of chance. Although they couldn’t abolish the games which still went on in secret, India never looked favorably on gambling again.
Know more : indian online gambling sites
Present-day Gambling
The perspective of the Indian government on gambling is that it is the temptation that lures players to bet beyond their means, ruining their lives and their families. India’s 29 states and seven Union territories have the authority to decide whether to legalize gambling or not. Each state has a different legislative council and even though most of them do not support it, they do allow some forms of it, such as betting on horse races and the lottery. Since gambling restrictions are still in effect to a large extent, many have turned to online options and can choose from some of the best online casinos for India to scratch that itch. Almost 40% of internet users in the country have admitted to spending some of their time playing online casino games with no particular intention of earning large sums of money, but just to have fun and pass the time.
The history of India, which is almost 4000 years long, is brimming with amusing anecdotes of gamblers winning and losing in their favorite games. However, the future might not have as much room for such stories, since the gambling ban is still in effect. The Indian government still doesn’t trust its people to use their own judgment and roll the dice deciding their own fate. If the rules should ever change, the casino industry will be able to boost the Indian economy to a great extent. The people will enjoy their games while the country reaps the benefits. Some would say, a win-win situation.

CASINO GAMES:

There are a number of different online casino sites open for Indians to play on in 2020. With enticing welcome bonuses, a huge library of games including live casino games, more players are signing up now than ever!
However, many online casinos go beyond just a website and offer dedicated mobile apps that allow you to enjoy all features of the online casinos on the go! Check out the best online casino websites for India in 2020!
#1 – LeoVegas’ App
LeoVegas is one of the biggest online casinos in the world and contains a huge number of casino games. You can play Blackjack, Roulette, Slots, live casino games, and more on the online casino.
The LeoVegas app allows you to access more than 1,000 casino games offered by the online casino. Both Android and iOS users are covered as there are dedicated apps for both the operating systems. The user interface is designed to provide a simple and enjoyable experience for all players.
#2 – Betway’s App
Betway is one of the biggest names in the world of online casinos and betting. The site not only offers a huge collection of games in its full-fledged online casino but also offers really great odds on sporting events around the world with a great welcome bonus for new players.
The Betway app allows you to stay in touch with your adventurous self on the go and gives you access to all the games provided on the online casino. Some of the features that make the app great are its small size and classification system that lets you seamlessly switch from its three modes – Betway Casino, Beway Vegas, and Betway Live Casino.
#3 – Casumo’s App
Casumo is a modern online casino with a focus on providing a clean and enjoyable user interface to its players. In terms of game selection, Casumo does pretty well too, and provides tons of different online casino games for you to enjoy.
In keeping up with the philosophy of offering its players one of the best online casino experiences, Casumo also has a dedicated app that can be used to play all the different games offered on the site. Some of the key features of the app include a personal dashboard, automatic notifications, and easy depositing and withdrawal functions right from the app itself!
#4 – Dafabet’s App
Dafabet is one of Asia’s largest online casino and sportsbook. With sponsorships with reputed teams like Celtic FC and Fulham FC, Dafabet is a legit operator that provides an excellent casino and betting experience to players all over Asia including India.
Along with offering an awesome website that is completely responsive, Dafabet also has dedicated apps for both Android and iOS users that allow you to stay in the middle of the action always. The apps have an extremely user-friendly interface and are updated regularly to ensure the app is always fresh and secure!
Online casino apps are changing the game!
Online casinos are rising in popularity in India and since they are regulated by worldwide licenses like MGA, they’re transparent, fair, and legal! A common misconception for online casinos and their bonuses is that they need to be claimed on the website. In almost all cases, it’s possible to download the app from App Store or Google Play, sign up, and grab the welcome bonus straight from the app.
Get in touch with the speculative side of your personality with these amazing online casino apps today!
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あなたは私のことを何と言ったの?私がネイビーシールズでクラスのトップを卒業したことを知ってもらいます。アルクエダで数々の秘密の襲撃に関与しており、300人以上の殺害が確認されています。私はゴリラ戦の訓練を受けており、全米軍の中で最高の狙撃兵です。あなたは私には何の役にも立たず、ただの別のターゲットです。この地球上でこれまで見られなかったような正確さで性交を一掃します、私のクソ言葉をマークします。あなたはインターネットで私にそのたわごとを言うことで逃げることができると思いますか?もう一度考えて、ファッカー。私たちが話している間、私はアメリカ中のスパイの秘密のネットワークに連絡しており、あなたのipは現在追跡されているので、嵐、うじ虫の準備をよりよくすることができます。あなたが人生と呼ぶ哀れな小さなことを一掃する嵐。お前は死んだぞ私はどこにでも、いつでもいることができ、700以上の方法であなたを殺すことができます。それは私の素手だけです。私は非武装戦闘で広範囲に訓練されているだけでなく、私は米国海兵隊の兵器全体にアクセスでき、大陸の顔からあなたの惨めなお尻を拭き取るためにそれを最大限に使用します、あなたはちょっとくそ。もしあなただけが、あなたの小さな「賢い」コメントがあなたに降りかけようとしている不誠実な報復が何であるかを知ることができたなら、たぶんあなたはあなたのクソ舌を握っていただろう。しかし、あなたはできなかったし、そうしなかったし、今やあなたは代価を払っているのだ。私はあなたのいたるところに激怒し、あなたはそれに溺れます。お前は死んだぞ、キッド️️ ️ ️although ️‍ ️‍️ ️‍️‍️‍ ️⃣ ️️ ️️️ � 𝓼𝓱𝓾𝓽 𝓾𝓹
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AFL

With US sports still basically on Hiatus aside from a select few I've started betting on Aussie rules since I work late at night anyways and normally don't get off work til midnight or 3.... Must say aside from the fact I haven't won a bet on the sport yet it is much more fun to watch than cricket, Tennis, or a west coast basketball game.
submitted by Caron9391 to sportsbetting [link] [comments]

The ice cream truck in my neighborhood sells moon flavored ice cream

Only a few of the other kids in my neighborhood know about the ice cream truck that sells moon flavored ice cream. It only sits in front of random houses at sunset, and can disappear in a matter of seconds when you've had your back turned.
Tommy was the first one to spot it. He said it appeared just before the sun went down, on his way back from the playground.
"But don't eat it, man. I tried it once, and holy shit...just don't eat the moon flavored ice cream!"
I never listened to Tommy. He always said not to try things, only so he could hoard them for himself. No one else paid any attention to him when he said this.
"Seriously, I'm not making it up this time!" Tommy said, red faced. Only thing I thought of was that, Tommy is a really good actor. He'd do just about anything to keep a delicious treat or cutting edge toy all to himself.
One day I decided to try the moon flavored ice cream for myself. The truck, painted a very striking moon theme, rolled up right across the street from my house.
"Liam! Liam! The moon truck just pulled up!" my sister, Sally, pointed excitedly out the window. I stopped eating my mac and cheese and hurriedly went over to the window. Sally was right.
I glimpsed the moon on the very top of the truck, which made me smile. I quickly grabbed my coat and dashed across the lawn, then the street without even checking to look for cars.
An old man, beady-eyed but somehow not very threatening looking, leaned out of the window.
"What flavor would you like, boy?" the old man asked cheerily. "You know, we have a secret, extra special moon fl--," the old man started.
"Yeah, it's no secret since your truck is basically the moon on wheels," I replied, feeling a bit cheeky that day for some reason. "You don't have to hype it up. Two scoops of the moon, please. No, wait, make it four. My sister will never let me hear the end of it if I don't bring her back some."
The old man leaned forward, chuckling.
"Four scoops of the moon coming right up!" the old man said, his tone light and jolly.
He handed me the cones, still grinning. Now I was a little creeped out because of his constant cheery expression.
"I won't keep you long, boy. I just want to let you know that I reward repeat customers. If you buy eight more cones, I will take you on a free trip to the moon."
"Only eight?" I asked. There wasn't a hint of sarcasm to my voice at all, and the old man just chuckled again.
"That's right, squirt, only eight. Now you run along and give your sister a chance to taste some of that delicious moon!"
I ran across the street, thinking about what the old man said.
Once over on my side of the street, I turned back to look at the old man again. The truck had gone, and the sun was setting over Tommy's house. I took a quick lick of moon flavored ice cream. It was very chunky, "moon rock" I bet the old man would say. And the taste...strange. Moon apparently tasted like a combination of mint and cherry flavor. But extra cold. So cold that my tongue stuck to it like it was a flag pole in January.
At least for the first few seconds.
I found myself addicted to every cold, crunchy lick. The taste was decent, but it was the fact that every time I licked the moon ice cream, I started to have weird visions of being in space. Or of astronauts on fire.
If Sally had the same experience, she didn't let on. She just laughed every time her tongue got stuck.
That night before bed, Sally came up to me when mom left the room to do the dishes after dinner. She had been gone while Sally and I devoured the ice cream, and didn't know anything about it. To my surprise, Sally didn't say anything to mom. She must've known to keep it secret.
"I saw the astronaut on fire, did you?" Sally whispered in my ear.
I nodded lightly, listening to the crickets chirp. She looked as frightened as I imagined I felt.
I didn't have much time to talk to Sally before bed, and I thought about how maybe that was a good thing. I sat in bed for at least an hour that night, thinking about the astronaut on fire. What it meant.
Eventually, I fell asleep, a book to my chest. I woke in the middle of the night, the sound of heavy banging on my closet doors waking me up. I just sat there, paralyzed. Then closet doors were opened by two large, gloved hands.
My chest tightened in fear. I pulled the covers up to my chin because in the grip of my terror I didn't know what else to do. The gloved hands seemed to reach out farther, then I could see a hulking astronaut suit emerging from the closet. It seemed huge as it stretched to its full height.
It lumbered closer. The suit seemed to move incredibly slowly, but eventually reached the side of my bed.
"We...didn't land on the moon," the astronaut said in a low, threatening whisper.
The astronaut grabbed my hands in its thick gloves and repeated "we didn't land on the moon!"
Then it lumbered back to the closet, closing the doors.
It took me a long time to fall asleep after that. I kept checking the closet for a few hours following the horrific thing that I saw. Waiting to see the astronaut still crouching in the darkness, suddenly bursting into flame.
But it didn't happen. I fell asleep around 3:30 in the morning. The last thing I remember was watching the closet door. In the morning, Sally seemed somber as well. We both ate our cereal in silence, and my sister gave me a tired but knowing look.
We didn't talk at all on the way to school. Before my mom dropped me off, she looked back and asked "is everything alright with you? I've never experienced the car so...quiet. You and Sally are usually bickering like crazy!"
I said I didn't know what was wrong with Sally. I gave the excuse of being on my phone until the early hours, so I wasn't able to get a lot of sleep. I offered the theory that Sally probably did the same.
My mom just shook her head and motioned for me to get out of the car. She hated it when I was late for school.
Most of the day passed uneventfully, until I went to use the bathrooms on the third floor. The halls were empty during the time I decided to go. My footsteps echoed in the halls.
I opened one of the stalls, and there was the astronaut, lumbering and faceless, big, giant gloves reaching for my throat. I stifled a scream and remained immobile until fire spread from its head down its arms. At that point, I did give a shriek. Then I ran out and down the hall as quickly as I could.
The rest of the day was a meeting with the principal, talking to my mom, who sounded so stressed and disappointed on the phone. When mom picked me up later that day, the expression on her face made it worse. On the ride home, she said she didn't know what what she was going to do with me.
"I'm going to have to call your dad, you know that, don't you?"
That sentence lingered in my brain during the entire ride home. I really didn't want her to call my dad, who lived several hours away, and was the enforcer of her rules.
Afterward, mom said she wanted to take Sally out, and they'd go pick up some dinner. Maybe KFC. But I thought it was more that she just needed to get away from the situation, and didn't trust me alone with my sister.
Sally and mom were still gone by the time sunset came around. I thought about Sally then, wondering if she had a similar experience at school, but I didn't hear anything like that, so I assumed no. Which was strange.
The ice cream truck drove up to its place across the street. It caught me by surprise as I sat at the kitchen table. I was surprised it parked in front of my house two days in a row.
After I crossed the street, I walked up to the window, practically fuming. The old man looked as jolly as ever.
"Would you like two cones, one for you and one for your sister?" the old man asked.
"Why the fuck did you put LSD in my ice cream!" I asked, my voice rising.
"I saw this astronaut in my closet. It couldn't have been real. But I started seeing things as soon as I licked the ice cream. The ice cream you gave me!"
"Well, if you are going to take a trip to the moon, you have to be prepared, young man. That is simply common sense!"
"Look, I want to know what the hell is going on. At first, I thought you were just a harmless crazy old man selling weird ass ice cream, but after what I saw last night..."
The old man's expression changed from cheery to somber.
"Come into my truck, young man. I can tell just from this conversation that you have no respect for the process."
The old man leaned closer to me, and I could smell the moon ice cream on his breath.
"The first thing you need to know is that everything you saw last night was real. So, as I said, come into my truck, and I can give you the full truth, if you are willing to accept the truth as it exists."
Even though the old man's eyes sparkled with a kind of spacey malice, I felt the urge to comply. His jaw clenched, and I could tell that for the very first time the old man was irritated with me. No, not just irritated, furious.
The doors to the truck opened. Fear settled on my shoulders and neck, making my muscles tense.
Staring into the truck was like staring into complete and utter blackness.
submitted by MilesCastle to nosleep [link] [comments]

Sports Betting Guides

There are many popular sports across the world and these sports transition well in regards sports that generate a lot of betting interest from punters.
Below is a list of the most popular sports that punters like to have a wager on week in week out, over the coming weeks, I will take each sport and write a betting guide with the most popular bet types across each sporting sphere.
AFL.
Australian rules football is of course the flagship sport for most Aussie punters and the majority bet on AFL outcomes at some point within a regular season. The most common bets are placed on teams to win either the Premiership or the Brownlow medal.
For more popular betting markets and bet types click through to our AFL betting guide.
NRL.
Rugby league is also one of the most popular sports that punters bet on throughout the year with the main focus being the Premiership winner and the Dally M award. The rugby league world cup is also popular which comes around every four year.
For more popular betting markets and bet types click through to our NRL betting guide.
Soccer.
Soccer in Australia is quickly becoming one of the most popular alternatives to bet on with the A League which is Australia's premier division and the English Premier League being the two most preferred markets punters like to have a punt on. The World Cup which is held every four years is also very popular amongst punters.
For more popular betting markets and bet types click through to our soccer betting guide.
Cricket.
Cricket in Australia has a long standing history and the public also like to have the odd wager on the sport too with the Sheffield Shield and the relatively new twenty twenty tournament The Big Bash being the common choices amongst punters. The Ashes which is held between Australia and England is also a very popular market.
For more popular betting markets and bet types click through to our cricket betting guide.
Tennis.
With Australia hosting one of the four tennis majors each year it is no surprise that the sport is popular with punters, along with the Australia Open the other three majors which are the US Open, French Open and of course Wimbledon are also popular year on year.
For more popular betting markets and bet types click through to our tennis betting guide.
Horse Racing.
Way out in front of any sport or racing code to bet on is the thoroughbred's, each year horse racing turns over more money than all others combined and it is know wonder as Australia hosts some of the best racing carnivals throughout the world. The Caulfield Cup, Magic Millions, Australian Derby and of course the world famous Melbourne Cup are some of the most popular races each year.
As I wrote earlier, in the coming weeks, I will take each sport and write a betting guide with the most popular bet types across each sporting sphere.
submitted by PresentType to BettingTipsExpertinfo [link] [comments]

/r/religion - "Why do people hate Jehovah's Witnesses?"

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EDIT: As of Sat Jul 11 18:54:13 UTC 2020, the post is at [4pts|57c]

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Submission Why do people hate Jehovah's Witnesses?
Comments Why do people hate Jehovah's Witnesses?
Author foxdawnstar
Subreddit /religion
Posted On Thu Jul 09 18:55:30 UTC 2020
Score 4 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:13 UTC 2020
Total Comments 32

Post Body:

They dont war, vote, cuss do drugs etc...

Related Comments (57):

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Author PoopInMouthIsBad
Posted On Fri Jul 10 05:01:55 UTC 2020
Score 1 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:04 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
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You’re a JW aren’t you?
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Author Namelesstruthseeker
Posted On Fri Jul 10 01:49:57 UTC 2020
Score 9 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:04 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
Body link
As someone raised in that religion. It strips you of personality. You are taught the world is under the devils control. All your friends not part of the religion will die at Armageddon. That is why JWs preach. If you are anything but heterosexual life is even worse. They are openly homophobic even though they profess they aren’t. Oh and as mentioned there is a huge pedophile problem within congregations (churches). Only the elders (sort of bishop in other churches) are told if someone has past incidents. All other people in the congregation are not told if someone is a pedophile. I could go on but it’s easy to search why JWs are hated.
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Author Lirille
Posted On Thu Jul 09 22:31:26 UTC 2020
Score 3 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:04 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 1
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"Hate" is a bit of a strong word, but I'm not a big fan of proselytizing and peddling in general. Be it from JWs, hare krishnas, political parties, car salesmen... The fastest way to make me dismiss whatever you're saying outright is trying to sell me something I was not looking to buy.
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Author stilllovesjah
Posted On Fri Jul 10 01:28:26 UTC 2020
Score 5 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:06 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 30
Body link
Many people hate dangerous cults like Mormons, Moonies, Jehovah's Witnesses, or Scientologists. And for good reason!
Specifically for JWs, they're currently refusing to take responsibility for the 1000+ cases of pedophilia they covered up in Australia.
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Author Shihali
Posted On Thu Jul 09 19:28:41 UTC 2020
Score 3 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:06 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 5
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A big one used to be, or still is, that Jehovah's Witnesses are against patriotism. They won't pledge allegiance to the flag and have gone to prison rather than serve in the national military when called up in the draft.
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Author papa_krush
Posted On Fri Jul 10 01:20:16 UTC 2020
Score 5 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:06 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
Body link
They won't salute the flag yet the president of this religion back in ww2 wrote a letter telling Hitler he was doing a swell job gathering up all the Jews....but then Hitler also went for the JW's so they don't like him no more lol
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Author rivermannX
Posted On Fri Jul 10 00:50:47 UTC 2020
Score 3 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:06 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
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Where do you get that people hate Jehovah's Witnesses?
No one I know hates JWs. I hate the Organization.
They break up families. Meddle with UN and OSCE. Drink lots of alcohol. Protect pedophiles...
I've known my share that do "cuss" and "do drugs." Lot's of drugs. But they are real good at keeping it under wraps. All for "appearances" sake.
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Author NemoKeir
Posted On Thu Jul 09 20:48:40 UTC 2020
Score 0 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:06 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 7
Body link
I would assume it is because they aren't very relatable.
We like our violence. We like our drink. We like our vulgarity, and sex.
Jehovah Witness represent everything we aspire to be like, but never actually bother being like.
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Author RobotConvert
Posted On Fri Jul 10 02:24:22 UTC 2020
Score 8 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:06 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 1
Body link
Jehovah’s Witnesses are instructed to not read or watch anything that isn’t approved by the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society.
Wt, 6/1/1967, pg 338,
"...in Jehovah’s organization it is not necessary to spend a lot of time and energy in research, for there are brothers in the organization who are assigned to that very thing."
[Tony Morris (2015 Annual Meeting)]Jehovah’s Witness Governing Body Member Tony Morris III telling Jehovah’s Witnesses to only stick with what they have approved.
here’s some info:
[JWFacts](http://jwfacts.com) is a great site that brings up the history and information of the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society.
YouTube has many former JWs also:
exJW Critical Thinker
exJW Analyzer
John Ceders (aka: Lloyd Evens)
StopTheShunning
Child rape/molestation/abuse info:
Below are links and short understanding of what the links are.
Australian Royal Commission Case Study 29: Jehovah’s Witnesses Jehovah’s Witnesses were not the only group that was investigated. See the main page to see other religious and non-religious groups who come in contact with children who were also investigated.
See page 58 of the PDF of case study 29 for the information on the 1,006 alleged perpetrators. You may also use the key word “1,006” in your search bar as well.
Video of Case Study 29
Shepherding the Flock of God book is for elders and those who are allowed to have this book. The rank and file and women aren’t allowed to have this book. This Letter for the Body of Elders concerning binding the elders book was sent from the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society as there was a lapse in elders allowing others to see this book, even just for binding it.
This is the latest Shepherding the Flock of God 2019 Edition. It wasn’t released at the time of the ARC, but it was leaked February 2019 and may be informative in what changes there are into comparison to the one released during the ARC.
Shepherding the Flock of God (April 2020 Edition)
Deeper into the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society, the Branch Organization 2018 is a internal document that even local elders may not see.
Here’s the latest Watchtower Magazine Study Edition (May 2019). The link provided is the official link used by The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society and Jehovah’s Witnesses. See the article “Love and Justice in the Face of Wickedness” on child abuse. This article was studied by Jehovah’s Witnesses between July 1 to August 4, 2019.
Jehovah’s Witnesses shunning policy.
Watchtower Bible & Tract Societyown lawyer saying that disfellowshipping doesn’t break up families.
Longer video here.
Here’s a video (2:30 minute mark) at a annual meeting where a shunning video was released iirc.
So what the Jehovah’s Witnesses and their leaders at the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society are doing is saying publicly that shunning doesn’t break up families, but internally amongst the group it really does. It is used as a way to keep control.

No matter what false teachers say, we will not follow them! We have no reason to listen to people who are like wells with no water. Those who listen to them will be disappointed. We are determined to be loyal to Jehovah and to his organization. This organization has never disappointed us and always gives us an abundance of pure waters of truth from God’s Word. — Isaiah 55:1-3; Matthew 24:45 Watchtower 2011 July 15 p.12 para. 8 Simplified Ed.
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Author redditing_again
Posted On Fri Jul 10 18:19:12 UTC 2020
Score 3 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:06 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 3
Body link
Try asking a JW at your door whether they believe only JWs will survive Armageddon.
Then read the Oct. 2019 Study Edition, pg. 11, par. 14:
This means trying to motivate people to make the truth their own by applying what they learn, dedicating their life to Jehovah, and getting baptized. Only then will they survive Jehovah’s day.​
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Author Distinguished-Duck
Posted On Sat Jul 11 05:21:12 UTC 2020
Score 0 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:06 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 22
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Regarding the first point, it's clear you're not familiar with what exactly the Royal Commission found. Because there was no police report for any of those cases. I encourage you to read the report.
It sounds like all you read is the sensationalized headline. To say none of the cases were reported is categorically false. You can go read the report yourself but here's some facts that contradict your claims right from the public inquiry's submission:
  • "383 alleged perpetrators had been dealt with by either police or secular authorities in the respective States or Territories in which they reside."
  • "Similarly, the case files record that 161 of the alleged perpetrators recorded in the files had been convicted of a child sexual abuse offence."
  • "There is no evidence before the Royal Commission that the Jehovah’s Witness organisation either had or did not have a role or any involvement in bringing to the attention of secular authorities any complaint of child sexual abuse that was investigated by secular authorities." Meaning they don't know who reported these because reporting is often done anonymously. But the bottom line is hundreds of the 1006 cases since 1950 were reported contrary to your assertion.
And instead choose to believe there's a global conspiracy to discredit your religion in spite of no evidence of that existing, well that's a level of blind faith I could never accept.
  • Blind faith would be believing uncorroborated and anonymous conjecture over clear written evidence to the contrary.
  • Blind faith would be believing a vocal anti-Witness group that clearly has an agenda to demonize an entire religion. You just have to see all the brigading that happens when Witnesses are mentioned in random subreddits as was the case in this very thread.
  • Blind faith would be believing a sensationalized headline over clear evidence to the contrary.
You also still haven't explained why you think it's OK for Jehovah's Witnesses to discriminate against women and gay people, or allow people to die when blood could save them.
What do you mean I still haven't explained these things? It's the first time you're mentioning it. Regardless, I won't take your bait and change the subject.
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Author lescannon
Posted On Fri Jul 10 00:53:12 UTC 2020
Score 3 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:06 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
Body link
Hate is too strong a word, but I dislike spending time with them.
I found many of them to be smugly obnoxious. For example, when I went to my grandmother's funeral service, at a Kingdom Hall, I was introduced to this one guy, roughly my own age. He asked if I believed in God. When I answered honestly that I do not, he said immediately in a very condescending manner, "Sure you do."
Sure, most religious think they are the most correct, but I have heard contempt or ridicule in the voices of many Jehovah's Witnesses for people who believe differently than they do.
When they knock at your door and you say "I am not interested in converting", they lie to you by saying something like "We're not here to convert you." They have the term "Theocratic Warfare" which justifies lying to people who do not have the right to know. The only way that I can think that they can think I don't have the right to an honest answer is if they don't respect me as a person at all - and I think that is largely the case.
They are also dishonest in discussions. They will say that they really want to hear what you have to say, but they really just want to argue their teachings, because they think they already know all the answers. They are not really interested in learning from people who aren't Jehovah's Witnesses.
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Author FugoRanshee
Posted On Sat Jul 11 17:15:21 UTC 2020
Score 1 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:06 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 1
Body link
Why do you say "they"? Aren't you a JW?
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Author 951753951753
Posted On Fri Jul 10 20:51:36 UTC 2020
Score 3 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:07 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 2
Body link
Seems like you are misinformed. Here is the PDF version of Millions Now Living Will Never Die a book published in 1920 written by your beloved J. F. Rutherford: https://www.jwfacts.com/publications/Millions_Now_Living_Will_Never_Die-33m.pdf

Have you read any of the Studies in the Scriptures volumes? They were written by Rutherford as far back as 1886 and the last volume was released in 1917 after his death. Obviously God wouldn't let Rutherford, the leader of the one true religion on earth, publish anything that was not guided by holy spirit. That makes it especially fun to learn that he was inspired to write that the year 1914 can be verified by taking measurements of the Great Pyramid in Giza. I bet you didn't know JWs used to believe that, did you? Of course, there was much more to learn about the world from the pyramids than just the 1914 year, so I'd recommend reading through them yourself. It's full of insane prophecy. Though you could purchase a set on eBay, most Kingdom Halls still have a set.
That's the kind of information the JWs won't continue to publish on their website.
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Author AccordingE
Posted On Fri Jul 10 03:14:13 UTC 2020
Score 5 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:07 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
Body link
They're more of a cult than religion. You are not allowed to think for yourself, if you become one all your actions are judged and in many cases disciplined (I was pulled into a back room over wearing a skirt that sat just above my knee at 17). If you decide to leave the whole community shuns you, and for people who were raised in it, this literally means every single person they know so leaving isn't always something they're confident enough to do.
Also as mentioned elsewhere they protect predators, look into the Australian Royal Commission which resulted in the "Redress" scheme to help victims of child sexual abuse received compensation and apologies for the institutions as fault literally every religion/organisation in the country except 6 joined, Jehovah's witnesses being one of them.
And I also speak from my own personal experience of reporting sexual abuse from an elder to the other elders, only to be pulled into a room with him and his wife to discuss the validity of my "claim" and be told I had no witnesses. He is still a Jehovah's Witness today.
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Author can-i-be-real
Posted On Fri Jul 10 02:10:50 UTC 2020
Score 6 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:10 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 19
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I see. Thank you for your response.
So, If you were explaining disfellowshipping to a non-Witness, would you say, “Normal family relationships remain, with the exception of a spiritual relationship,” with no other qualifiers?
Edit: also, just a heads up, but I think you accidentally copy/pasted the same definition twice. I don’t think you meant to, but I know what you’re getting at.
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Author FugoRanshee
Posted On Fri Jul 10 01:41:16 UTC 2020
Score 4 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:11 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 6
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They are very clear that a second witness is required only administering internal discipline. They state that dealing with crime is the responsibility of secular authorities. Are you complaining that they don’t disfellowship people without corroborating evidence?
Not at all. In my case, the fact that there was no internal administration of discipline was clearly meant to be the complete end of the matter. It was strongly implied, or directly told to everyone involved, including my parents and the parents of all the other victims of my perpetrator, who had also brought forward their own, separate cases, that the subject was closed. Anyone talking to secular authorities would be bringing reproach on Jehovah.
Luckily, I told a friend, who told his uncle, who then reported to police and the guy was jailed for molesting 15 boys.
Then he was disfellowshipped.
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Author can-i-be-real
Posted On Fri Jul 10 02:02:51 UTC 2020
Score 6 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:11 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 23
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I’ll give it a shot, if you answer one question for me: If one of Jehovah’s Witnesses is disfellowshipped, would you explain it by saying that they will maintain normal family relationships, other than the accepted loss of a spiritual relationship as a consequence of their decisions?
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Author 951753951753
Posted On Fri Jul 10 20:37:17 UTC 2020
Score 2 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:11 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
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Can you give some examples of lies that are told about JWs? You can start with just one.
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Author Distinguished-Duck
Posted On Sat Jul 11 06:05:15 UTC 2020
Score 0 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:11 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 20
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I have no idea what you are quoting.
The report by the Commission -https://www.royalcommission.gov.au/sites/default/files/2019-07/case_study_29_-_findings_report_-_`jehovahs_witnesses`.pdf
  • Page 60 states "383 alleged perpetrators had been dealt with by either police or secular authorities in the respective States or Territories in which they reside."
  • Page 60 further states: “Similarly, the case files record that 161 of the alleged perpetrators recorded in the files had been convicted of a child sexual abuse offence.”
  • Again on page 60: “There is no evidence before the Royal Commission that the Jehovah’s Witness organisation either had or did not have a role or any involvement in bringing to the attention of secular authorities any complaint of child sexual abuse that was investigated by secular authorities." Meaning they don't know who reported these because reporting is often done anonymously. But the bottom line is hundreds of the 1006 cases since 1950 were reported contrary to your assertion.
How do you reconcile what you're saying with what Jehovah's Witnesses themselves say? From the 2006 tract The End of False Religion Is Near: Even churches that condemn immorality have tolerated religious leaders who have sexually abused children. What, though, does the Bible teach? It plainly states: “Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men . . . will inherit God’s kingdom.” This isn't taken out of context. It's literally calling religions that tolerate pedophiles "false religion".
They don’t tolerate abusers among the rank and file let alone their “leaders”. They actively excommunicate unrepentant sinners including abusers. They were able to provide the public inquiry in Australia such detailed information all the way back to 1950 because they want to keep their congregations clean. They also want to keep tabs so that any alleged abusers don’t turn up in another unsuspecting congregation. Whenever they appoint elders anywhere they check against this information to make sure abusers don’t rise to a position of authority - even if they abused someone before they were Witnesses. All of this proves they do the opposite of “tolerate” abusers.
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Author Metalfl8
Posted On Fri Jul 10 02:36:29 UTC 2020
Score 9 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:11 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
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Jehovah's Witnesses harbor a persecution complex.
They have difficulty understanding they aren't the center of the universe and the vast majority of people either don't know they exist or confuse them with LDS. [Mormons]
And of coarse they [like many delusional paranoid groups] excuse legitimate criticism as "hateful".
Short answer..... Most people don't hate them even MANY former members. They just cry over every little "papercut" and need to "Adult" now as a group and repair the damage caused to victims of child abuse they mishandled for decades.
Other than that almost nobody cares about them anymore than a typically Evangelical Fundamentalist denomination.
🤷‍♂️
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Author can-i-be-real
Posted On Fri Jul 10 02:24:44 UTC 2020
Score 6 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:11 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 14
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Since you know the context, You don’t think that statement is, at best, misleading. At worst, a lie? Can you explain how you come to view it as an accurate, honest explanation of disfellowshipping?
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Author FugoRanshee
Posted On Fri Jul 10 10:51:36 UTC 2020
Score 3 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:13 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 18
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How do you know it isnt true? You said above that you arent a JW.
I am here, with the experience of being raised as a JW and trained in their tactics, telling you that this is exactly what they do.
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Author Distinguished-Duck
Posted On Fri Jul 10 02:02:12 UTC 2020
Score 1 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:13 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 5
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It was strongly implied, or directly told to everyone involved, including my parents and the parents of all the other victims of my perpetrator, who had also brought forward their own, separate cases, that the subject was closed.
I find it interesting that you somehow know everything that was said between everyone involved including “all other victims”. I do know that the Watchtower organization has never discouraged victims from reporting child abuse to authorities in its entire existence. To the contrary, they’ve made it clear in their policies distributed to local Kingdom Halls that elders should never discourage anyone from reporting child abuse.
I don’t put any weight on anonymous stories from anti-witness crusaders like yours. You are welcome to show anything written by Watchtower that discourages reporting abuse though, if in fact your allegation is true.
edit: I have noted that you were not able to show any evidence, only wild fanciful stories being told anonymously. BTW, brigading is against reddit rules so telling all your anti witness friends to come and downvote me is not appropriate.
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Author KazenoIgnis
Posted On Fri Jul 10 05:28:43 UTC 2020
Score 4 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:13 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
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No, but it's complicit in them. The watchtower society and Witness organization encourage door to door proselytizing. They regularly cover up abuse from elders towards children and I've talked personally to more than few women who ran away from home as teens to avoid being forced into marriage at 16 to a much older man; this is legal in many states with parents permission.
And my friend whose an active witness actually told me that many of his fellow adherents are alcoholitics. You also did not deny the white supremacist aspect. They may have changed their time, but that was well after most of the mainstream Christians did.
I find it hilarious that you're trying to defend the religion against these things when they're pretty well-known problems. If you're a Jehovah's witness, you would actually be better off working to try and change the organization from the inside. However that's not exactly easily done because the organization is pretty insular and unless you fully commit to their hivemind then you can't really progress beyond a local elder.
I don't like most atheists but the guy Telltale on YouTube discusses his experiences as an ex-JW rather well.
Frankly I don't treat the local Jehovah's witnesses badly, but I'm on their list of people not to approach because I don't want to be bothered. It took a few tries though including a complaint to their local Kingdom Hall from my attorney.
--- --- Notes
Author redditing_again
Posted On Fri Jul 10 19:50:29 UTC 2020
Score 5 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:13 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 1
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Let me just ask you two questions:
  • Who do JWs believe will survive Armageddon?
  • Do JW's believe that the quote in the WT I cited is correct?
I mean, if I can't select a clearly-written paragraph from a recent Watchtower to prove my point for fear of being called out for quote-mining, what can I do instead? After giving talks of all kinds for years, I can say that I was literally trained as a Witness to quote-mine, if that's what you want to call it. Seriously, isn't that how most talks work? A selection of chosen 'mined quotes' from the Bible and other publications are chosen and explained to create a talk? I'm not saying it's wrong--I think it's a fair way to make a presentation whether as a Witness or for secular reasons. I'm not sure why you'd criticize me for it, honestly.
And I'm really not trying to be dishonest or start an argument, or even be difficult, and I don't want to argue, but I would like to understand your point. My point is that I think Witnesses and many other people, religious and non-religious, obscure their true viewpoints when asked by newcomers. I'm not singling out Witnesses by any means, but that's what this topic happened to be examining.
--- --- Notes
Author FugoRanshee
Posted On Fri Jul 10 23:39:47 UTC 2020
Score 2 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:13 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 4
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The task set was to name a single publication from watchtower that is not on their site, which i provided. Expecting someone to react in the way that you have with this response, i added "...for starters."
I'm no activist. I'm just someone who's life was nearly destroyed by this toxic cult, but I have managed to regain control of my life and move on. This is despite the loss of my mother (among other family - according to my definition - members) and the sadness that comes with knowing how difficult that is for her and knowing that she has spent the last 30yrs of her life forcing herself to believe that this cult is "the truth", because if it's not, if she's wrong, she has removed her firstborn son from her life for nothing.
And that is what she has done, because we are talking about just another obscure American cult that popped up in the late 1800s, based on a foundation of bullshit and from a time when everyone was buying snake oil.
But I am no activist. There are others who will list publications for you if you like, that you'll never be told about at jw.borg.
If you're actually willing to listen to their answers though, why make them do all the work?
Just go to jwfacts.com and read for yourself. It's all there, it's all real, and sticking your head in the sand won't change that! Ex-JWs and non-JWs are able to freely read the old watchtower publications, see all the scandals the cult has been involved in and read the many, many doctrinal changes they've made over the years, so really, you're just doing yourself a disservice by not viewing the material from both sides of the argument.
Edit: and i am only suggesting that site because it is the most comprehensive that i know of, but unlike the governing body, who openly discourage independant thought, i would encourage you to use google or youtube to freely seek out information. Determine for yourself what is and isn't true, using your own rational and logical thought processes.
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Author 951753951753
Posted On Fri Jul 10 21:14:27 UTC 2020
Score 3 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:13 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 2
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Here is the PDF version of Millions Now Living Will Never Die a book published in 1920 and written by J. F. Rutherford: https://www.jwfacts.com/publications/Millions_Now_Living_Will_Never_Die-33m.pdf
Take a look at page 89 of the book under the heading EARTHLY RULERS. Here's a quote:
As we have heretofore stated, the great jubilee cycle is due to begin in 1925. At that time the earthly phase of the kingdom shall be recognized.
Was this book inspired by holy spirit to be written? If yes, then how much of that book is still true? If no, then why did God allow it to be written if the IBSA was his chosen people?
You can't say this organization is transparent to outsiders when it's obvious that people who are currently JWs don't know about all of their own failed prophecies.
--- --- Notes
Author can-i-be-real
Posted On Fri Jul 10 03:22:30 UTC 2020
Score 2 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:13 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 6
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Anyone that isn’t related to JWs must just be like “What are these two morons even taking about?” Lol
--- --- Notes
Author Metalfl8
Posted On Fri Jul 10 04:11:51 UTC 2020
Score 3 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:13 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 2
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Not strange at all.....Shepherd the Flock of God is a "how to" book to legally cover their arse.
I don't care what you believe to be true....only what is in fact demonstrably true.
I have the necessary degrees and license to be qualified to make the proper decisions and have been professional tested to insure that is the case in regards to Law Enforcement. You don't have to say the same but must at least be a reasonable person to converse with and open to discussion.
Word smithing in self published biased denominational literature doesn't qualify as a reliable source.
I don't care if someone wants to be Jdub.
I don't care about your discomfort with the fact a Watchtower means nothing in reality and public records of court cases disproving your rediculous assertions are easily acquired in disturbingly large numbers.
That's a persomal issue....my blood pressure hasn't even gone up but it used to fluctuate like I assume yours is now.
That's called cognitive dissonance....I suggest researching Epistemology.
Im neither DA or DFd by the way....openly apostate athiest. I'm not an attorney but have enough education and an excellent one on retainer to legally block them.
--- --- Notes
Author Jephord
Posted On Fri Jul 10 03:37:52 UTC 2020
Score 4 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:13 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
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I know a different feeling than most here.
I was, until about 6 months ago a baptized Jehovah’s Witness. The organization has taken my 38years of accumulated friends, family and life. I am no longer to associate with them. They are not allowed or they'll suffer the same fate.
If anyone has a reason to hate Jehovah's Witnesses it's me. Yet, I love them. All of them.
I wish the leadership wasn't so deceitful and hypocritical. They lead these people, (in my opinion knowingly) to sacrifice their lives to the organization. They place themselves in the place of Jesus in most every way. Loyalty to the "governing body", 8 self proclaimed "chosen by God" men, is absolutely necessary to gain salvation and please God. They set the rules. They set, and constantly change doctrine. As is needed as time passes, along with the failure of prophecies.
They hold an extreme view of the Bible and enforce policy that is both abusive, mysoginistic, psychologically damaging, and deadly. Among other things. They are involved in a massive world wide sexual abuse cover up scandal, yet... most JW's don't even know!!
They are constantly told that the world is against them and apostates led by Satan are spreading false lies. The leaders dictate their every habit. No research outside of the Watchtower publications. Avoid social media. Set time limits on watching news, recreation and leisure. Do all you can for the organization. Only then will you gain salvation by jumping through the hoops.
Time in preaching HAS to be submitted in order to remain a member, or "publisher". Every month. And by the way....here's how to donate to us. :handout: And too, don't try to gain an education of any kind outside of high school, (don't gain critical thinking skills) but donate donate donate.
Recently, The Superior Court in Zurich said that the accusational statement "the JW organization violates human rights as well as harms children" is in fact true. Proven by evidence before the court. Watchtower chose to *not appeal after reading the final judgement. They are the LAST ones to let a judgement like this go. They fight to the death. But, it was indefensible and was drawing too much attention.
But, I love Jehovah's Witnesses. My wife is one too. I know them to be good, kinda, honest and loving people, until they must shun past members. They are so brainwashed by the leaders that they will cause a mother to walk by her child in a hall and never acknowledge they exist.
Please don't hate Jehovah's Witnesses. Hate the game.
If anyone wants sources for any of what I said, please ask.
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Author Distinguished-Duck
Posted On Fri Jul 10 05:51:10 UTC 2020
Score -3 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:13 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
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I didn’t my brother did. They did go to the Kingdom Hall. My brorther never told wha happenned then.
You brother never told you what happened when he went to the police? I thought you said “they swept it all under the rug”? Sounds like a fanciful tale to bolster your anti Witness crusade.
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Author Jephord
Posted On Fri Jul 10 05:12:08 UTC 2020
Score 4 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:13 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 2
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Let everyone judge for themselves as to whether or not the lawyer lied.
You are all over reddit putting out fires for JW's yet you conveniently never address this video. I know you don't want anyone to watch it because it decimates your whole false narrative around here and you don't want to have to start a 6th new account. So you don't draw attention to yourself in relation to it.
Watch it here
EDIT: 🦗🦗🦗 <----Those are crickets
--- --- Notes
Author NewbombTurk
Posted On Thu Jul 09 21:21:08 UTC 2020
Score 5 as of Sat Jul 11 18:54:13 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
Body link
I don’t hate Jehovah Witnesses as individuals (at least not because they’re JWs. But, I’m sure some of them are assholes).
But, I am very much against the religion. It’s a destructive cult that preys on poor people and minorities.
--- --- Notes
Author Distinguished-Duck
Posted On Fri Jul 10 12:...
This post would be too long for Reddit and has been truncated
submitted by jw_mentions to jw_mentions [link] [comments]

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